Hi Frank,

I use my private 3458A mostly as a ratio meter. Therefore, I'm not that
much worried about the temperature (changes), but I should have a look at
the filter ;).

I would also have no doubt, that the 3458A could compete with the Fluke
meters, if HP had installed expensive components. But the 3458A is a box of
cheap parts (my opinion) which are regularly calibrated against the two
internal standards. It is a great marketing stunt to make the customers
believe that ACAL is something great. In my opinion it is only to
cover/compensate the mediocre ingredients. Many meteorologists don't like
such self adjusting boxes, but that (in combination with the superb ADC
linearity) made it possible to create a "cheap" metrology DMM.

The 8508/88 are specified with 2.75 ppm/year not 4 btw. Our 8508A drifted
by 0.8ppm in the first year and I assume this rate will go down with age.

I don't think Keysight will offer a second (metrology) version of the
3458A. I also think that 10V are good enough on all the meters. If you
really need less uncertainty, one should use a 10V standard in combination
with the 3458A. But there are other differences between the 3458A and the
Fluke meters. Especially low and high ohms are much better on a 8508/88A.
Real ratio measurements, low TC and no Auto Zero are other points which
lead me to buy a 8508A and now a 8588A instead of an additional 3458A (we
already have more than one). But I don't want to start a Fluke vs. 3458A
discussion again ;).

Best regards
Philipp

Am Sa., 26. Okt. 2019 um 22:12 Uhr schrieb Frank Stellmach <
[email protected]>:

> Hi Philipp,
>
> you definitely have to clean the fan filter of your unit.. standing free
> on a table, and with a clean filter, the internal temperature rise is
> 12..13°C at most.
>
> Defining a metrology grade 3458A would explicitly require to define and
> control the environmental conditions in the specification, like reduced
> temperature range, specifying the ventilation requirements, like no use
> in a rack, by using a different filter, and also by regularly checking
> the internal temperature by firmware.
>
> The 3458A is designed and specified as a system DMM, inside a rack, in a
> hot manufacturing environment, like in a electronics manufacturing line,
> but never was intended and built as a metrology DMM, as hp and KS still
> try to advertise.
>
> Your argument, that a sample distribution is root cause of these wide
> specification limits, does not convince me:
>
> The annual and temperature drift (with ACAL) is mainly determined by the
> drift of the two internal references, due to the ACAL technique, the
> rest of the circuit does contribute only marginally, but on the w/o ACAL
> specifications .
>
> Therefore, the 8508/88A simply beat the 3458A, because they use an LTFLU
> running at 45..55°C only, instead of 95°C, and due to the heavy usage of
> stable Vishay BMF resistors, which also contribute to the superior
> short- and midterm stability of these instruments.
>
> So only the sample distribution and yield of the LTZ and 40k resistor
> affect the annual drift specification limits for the 3458A.
>
> Concerning the LTZ reference, that is already covered by their
> monitoring / selection process, where they have for sure have yield
> problems already.
>
> If they would simply reduce the temperature for metrology purposes, like
> in practice done on the FLUKE DMMs, they would directly get near 100%
> yield for 2..3ppm/year (@65°C),  due to the ACAL DCV feature..
>
> The 8508/88 on the other hand have to account for the drift of other
> components, to achieve e.g. these 4ppm/year, although the LTFLU very
> probably performs more like 1..2ppm/year (inside the 732B, @ 47°C, for
> example).
>
> I think the 3458A would at least be on par with the FLUKE DMMs if KS
> would simply chose the same metrology grade resistors and oven
> temperature as DATRON/FLUKE had done...
>
> Frank
>
>
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