Your getting into some very good debates. I think Jeds perfectly
right; ID as its currently described is badly flawed. Most young earth
creationists argue that you can't compromise in that way. Either an all
powerfully God exists or every thing evolved. The catch is that
creationists don't look for the origin of God because the whole debate
on origins and entropy is backwards. If you believe things started
supersimple and worked up against entropy to complexity then yes there
can be no true un evolved God. But if the universe is is at its origin
super anentropic then that means it started with all the properties of a
super state of order not chaos. What is the opposite of entropy it is
order and information. What is the greatest and most complex form of
order and information a thinking, feeling, creative personality. As the
apex of anentropy its self, the very manifestation of infinite energy
and infinite information woven together into a thinking form from the
start such a being needs no universe to manifest with in.
However it might get lonely so such a being would create space,
time, matter, energy (as we measure it) and life. Having infinite
information means infinite modeling capacity at infinite speed, anything
less is entropic is it not, so before a single quark is born the form
and destiny of all things are mapped out and any possible mistakes are
foreseen and avoided. There is one no need in that context for any
evolution of anything. From interstellar plasma and orbiting planets to
microbes, mice and men all are designed from the start.
There is only one exception. The question of diversity and choice.
Diversity is built in by allowing random probability to play a part in
many cases but acting on a limited range of probabilities. Like a
painter spattering paint on a canvas to add a unique and diverse pattern
to the otherwise ordered structure of his work, God does choose in some
cases to roll the dice. Thus all things from stars to organisms have
both order and variability woven in. The genetic code of a cat defines
its form but several options are written into the code including;
variability in size, fur colour and thickness, Teeth. Those options
allow diverse beauty and survival options but they don't make it a dog.
Every extinct life form we see that are not extinct because they are
less evolved or because God decided to scrap them along the way. They
are extinct because they got unlucky or where victims of mans greed and
ecosystem destruction. Most young earth creationists include even the
dinosaurs as victims of human action and argue that most fossils are the
product of a planetary geophysical catastrophe, the flood.
Yes, many argue that there no scientific evidence for the flood and
creation. They claim that there are no real scientists working on
creationism and they claim there are no peer reviewed papers on the
subject. Yet note that these same people, the editors of the Journals:
Nature, Science and Scientific American, make the same claims about cold
fusion. If a thousand peer review papers on cold fusion can be rejected
and thus the data hidden from the wider world. If a hundred researchers
can be isolated, ridiculed and even sacked for just doing Cold Fusion.
How many papers on creationism and flood geology might there be in
creationist circles. How many leading scientists forced out of
universities for their beliefs.
The black ban on cold fusion is only 16 years old. The black ban on
creationism is 180 years old. I know of people with warehouses of
research papers, some peer reviewed within the creationists' own peer
review journals, some that slipped into mainstream journals where the
young earth implication sometimes go unnoticed due to the reviewers
ignorance of true creationism. I would recommend that before dismissing
the origins debate, a careful look at the creationists material is wise.
The intelligent design people use the true creationist material,
sometimes without referencing the source, these materials are the
strength of both movements. The true source of the best material in my
opinion http://www.answersingenesis.org/ .
They know cold fusion is not dead and have never joined the skeptics in
ridiculing cold fusion.
Jed Rothwell wrote:
Jeff Kooistra wrote:
>What the slurrers against ID fail to admit is the possibility of
>extra-terrestrial intervention just like a civilisation leaves
industrial
>waste. To rule it out would be unscientific.
He's absolutely right. I pointed this out in a column once--God is
not a requirement for ID to be under consideration.
Wrong, wrong WRONG. I find this argument very annoying, as I have said
before. It solves nothing. It just pushes the problem off to another
planet. Somewhere, sometime intelligent life must have evolved
entirely by natural forces. Since it happened somewhere there is no
reason to think it did not happen again on earth.
- Jed
- Re: Intelligent design Wesley Bruce
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