Jack,
" You give AR the benefit of the doubt, but everyone else gets the doubt.  "

I said I didn't know if Rossi was right. But I have reason whatsoever to believe that somebody's idea of how Rossi could cheat was actually implemented. Even the author didn't say it was. All the recent anti Rossi stuff can be traced back to feeds from IH.

On 7/3/2016 7:50 PM, Jack Cole wrote:
I understand Adrian. You give AR the benefit of the doubt, but everyone else gets the doubt. "AR says" carries more weight in your opinion than Jed, the people Jed has talked to who have seen the data, Dewey Weaver, and IH. Multiple sources say the swapped out flow meter was inappropriate, so it's not just "Dewey said."

If the patent does not include the necessary details, then it is invalid. He either lied or it doesn't work as specified (and he still lied).

It is not likely productive for us to continue this discussion, since we're not likely to agree or have much influence on each other's opinions.


On Sun, Jul 3, 2016, 5:38 PM a.ashfield <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

    Jack,
    I give Rossi the benefit of the doubt, until proven otherwise.  As
    I said, I don't know, but neither do the skeptics.
    If you don't think there have been wild flights of imagination you
    have not been following the story. GG's analysis means nothing: it
    is just another possible way of cheating.  There are many of those
    and most are simpler than his suggestion.
    So Dewy said the flow meter was switched.  Did you read my last
    post?  Rossi pointed out that it was the ERV's instrument and he
    sent it away for calibration at the end of the test.
    AR didn't "prevent access to the customer's site."  He pointed out
    this was the agreement made in the contract and the ERV backed
    this up saying it was not necessary.

    I don't know if Rossi lied in the patent.  I'm don't think you
    could lie without invalidating the patent. There are other
    possibilities such as pretreatment of the materials and how the
    operation is controlled that effect the operation.

    Any more "Dewey said" items to shoot down?





    On 7/3/2016 4:00 PM, Jack Cole wrote:
    "I have no reason to thinkDewey Weaver is a credible witness.
    I don't know what happened and am quite willing to wait for solid
    facts.  The pathological skeptics jump on every wild flight of
    imagination and state that is what happened, while in fact being
    clueless.

    Rossi was right when he forecast that no test would ever be
    accepted but it would take the sale of working commercial
    reactors to quiet the critics.  As he says he hopes to have at
    least one commercial reactor working for the parent company of J
    M Products by the end of 2016 perhaps we will see then."

    Do you have a reason to true AR more than Jed, DW, IH, and many
    others?

    There is no wild flight of imagination here.  It is all based on
    facts and reasoning.  GG's analysis is based on how the apparatus
    design could be used to produce false results.  I gave a
    reasonable scenario for how and hypothesis for how AR could have
    approached the problem of faking the results.  DW provided an
    account of AR switching out the flow meters.  AR himself told you
    he prevented access to the "customer" site.  These are not
    flights of imagination.

    Do you disagree that AR lied in his patent and to IH about the
    formula needed to produce the effect?



    On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 2:23 PM a.ashfield <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

        I have no reason to think Dewey Weaver is a credible witness.
        I don't know what happened and am quite willing to wait for
        solid facts.  The pathological skeptics jump on every wild
        flight of imagination and state that is what happened, while
        in fact being clueless.

        Rossi was right when he forecast that no test would ever be
        accepted but it would take the sale of working commercial
        reactors to quiet the critics.  As he says he hopes to have
        at least one commercial reactor working for the parent
        company of J M Products by the end of 2016 perhaps we will
        see then.


        1.
            Frank Acland
            July 3, 2016 at 12:42 PM
            
<http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=136#comment-1204468>


            Dear Andrea Rossi:

            There are some accusations apparently coming from the IH
            group regarding the 1 MW plant test.

            a) The flow meter used in the test was not fit for purpose
            b) 1 MW plant did not have the required legal
            authorizations to work
            c) JM Products did not have any employees
            d) IH had proposed another customer to you, but you
            refused them
            e) JM did not use the heat you produced in any
            manufacturing process, and the only heat supplied by your
            plant was 20kW, not 1MW

            Can you respond to any of these points?

            Thank you,

            Frank Acland

        2.
            Andrea Rossi
            July 3, 2016 at 2:03 PM
            
<http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=892&cpage=136#comment-1204478>


            Frank Acland:
            Independently from who is the imbecile that wrote such
            things, please find hereunder my answers, confined within
            the limits allowed not to touch issues that have to be
            discussed exclusively in Court, with due evidence.
            a) The flowmeter used in the test is property of the ERV.
            The ERV has chosen that instrument based on his
            experience. It is, by the way, a very common flowmeter,
            that everybody can buy, even if it is quite expensive.
            The flowmeter has been certified and after the test the
            ERV has retrieved it and sent it to make a certification
            of its margin of error after the test of 1 year,
            specifically with a flow of water with the same
            temperature and the same flows of water that we had
            during the test, minimum, maximum, average. So the ERV
            told us he was going to do when he retrieved his
            flowmeter after the shut down of the plant at the end of
            the test.
            b) Obviously it is false, otherwise the plant would have
            been closed after the inspections
            c) False
            d) Tragicomic: Leonardo Corporation delivered, as per
            contract, the plant on August 2013, and we were ready to
            start immediately the test, as a continuation of the
            preliminar test made in Ferrara two months before with
            IH. IH had 1 year of time to start the 1 year test, but
            they always delayed with the excuse that they did not
            have the authorization from the Healthcare Office of
            North Carolina, due to the fact that there was the
            “nuclear reactions” issue. I have been able to get such
            permission in Florida and therefore I proposed the
            Customer, that has been accepted by IH. Evidence of it is
            the contract that IH made with JM. Since the plant was
            property of IH and it was in the factory of IH, obviously
            they could choose the Customer they wanted, if they had one.
            e) When you have not the burden to give evidence of what
            you say, you can say every stupidity. This is exactly the
            case. Anyway, what counts related to the contract is the
            energy produced by the 1 MW E-Cat, and such energy gets
            evidence from the report of the ERV.
            Warm Regards,
            A.R.




        On 7/3/2016 12:54 PM, Jack Cole wrote:
        "Your bias is showing again.  Goatguy suggested a possible
        method to scam the results and then you take it as read that
        that was done.  Really?"

        It is altogether possible that he was not so clever as GG
        thinks, as Jed suggests, but could have still taken
        advantage of the design flaw noted by GG.  I hope we get to
        see the raw data from the very beginning of the test
        eventually.  My speculation previously was that, if the test
        were to be faked, he would have played around with the
        variables he could tweak to get the meters to show what he
        wanted.  This would have taken some time, so the closer to
        the beginning of the test, the more likely you would be to
        see a COP of 1.  We know from Dewey Weaver that the Rascal
        was caught sneaking the flow meter out by some folks from IH
        who arrived early for the post-test inspection. Photographs
        are said to reveal that the serial number of the flow meter
        used did not match the one used originally.  If he had
        trouble fooling the original meters, he must have had to
        switch them out.  So again, if there is raw data that was
        not deleted from the beginning of the test, I would expect
        this to be the most accurate.

        Maybe people think there is a conspiracy of lies by DW and
        IH that would have to extend to others.  Although it is not
        completely impossible (very low probability) that IH and
        others have conspired to lie, it is much easier to believe
        that a known Rascal is the one doing the lying.  In fact,
        nearly everyone agrees that he has been known to lie about a
        number of things along the way.  The hopeful ones hold out
        hope that the lies stop at having a working formula.  A
        formula even hidden from IP patent protection, because he
        would have had to lie there too.  Or, best case scenario,
        works very rarely producing a COP between 1.1 and 1.3.

        In short, to believe the Rascal, you must accept a whole
        truckload of lies and hold out hope that the one thing he is
        not lying about, is that the reactor works.  He has not even
        asserted that he has held anything back from the patent or
        from IH, and is quick to praise anything that looks like a
        replication.  Now, if you know you are holding something
        back, and the reaction won't work without it, would you
        praise something that you know probably doesn't work?  It is
        easier to believe the simpler alternative: he doesn't have
        anything else to share and it doesn't work.


        On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 10:49 AM a.ashfield
        <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            "Itwasclever on Rossi’s part, but the type of cleaver
            that can cost him dearly, in the end."

            Your bias is showing again. Goatguy suggested a possible
            method to scam the results and then you take it as read
            that that was done.  Really?

            It would have been easier to fudge the sensors or the
            instrumentation reading them. That does not mean that
            was what happened either.





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