On 8/27/06, William Beaty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maybe you missed the part where they have useful patented security technology?
Do you really think that running a scam is a good way to get your current technology picked up?
And for that matter their careers as scientists and or designers would be over.
Several useful technologies they bothered to Patent.
Their names.
Their Careers and business.
So you believe that it's already over, this isn't a part of the scam, the scam is over this is just to keep the current investors off their back until they can bother buying plane tickets?
Perhaps they weren't ready to pack everything immediately and this is a delayed getaway for the lazy?
But considering (I assume we both agree) that Free Energy is real we simply have to consider which is more likely, that this is 1: Some people honestly think they have FE but don't, 2: Some people honestly think they have FE and they do, 3: An elaborate hoax to fool current investors into believing they are going to get their monies worth.
Now considering that 1 assumes they are truthful it is unlikely the effect is so effective as to convince so many scientists (them and others who have tested it) although i fear that it isn't closed loop yet.
2 makes sense the only issue is that they are going about it in a way that Jed, you and I think is not really sensible but it's not totally absurd it has been effective advertisement and Mark Godles agrees with it so it's not a method that couldn't be used by inventors of a genuine FE device.
Also my only issue is that I believe the step is unnecessary and I have less faith in the general scientific community than them, but it is a method I would expect those who encountered FE out of chance discovery or who otherwise are closer to convention to try and do.
However I am very interested if you can make the argument for a con more plausible than you so far have, if this is a scam it's early detection will help save the FE community from further bad press when it is discovered.
I suppose this is possible but IMO this goes beyond reasonable suspicion.
I would have little sympathy for any investor who would invest in someone that they can see is flatly lying to everyone but them.
This can't be discounted, though it is an easy question to ask and if they publicly state no then the investors would know they are lying.
They will either be giving people working devices or at the very least plans, either way I don't see it's likely they will keep many secrets from the jury.
It is true that testing in the jury members own lab (and certainly in 12 of them) in various countries the chance of some exotic power transmission is so low as to fully discount, it appears from their statements the jury will test it in their own labs independently and one thing seemed to indicate they will construct or at least be able to construct the device under test themselves.
Yes, but almost as useful too. (almost)
That's exactly what they said they are doing.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006, John Berry wrote:
> There are indicators against this being a scam though, first the fact that
> they have already patented useful (security) technology, have millions of
> dollars, investors and if they are shown as pulling off a scam they will be
> totally sunk.
Why?
If the FTC walks in, the people behind it will probably already be on a
plane out of the country. If they already have investors money in their
hands, it would be hard for them to be "sunk."
Maybe you missed the part where they have useful patented security technology?
Do you really think that running a scam is a good way to get your current technology picked up?
And for that matter their careers as scientists and or designers would be over.
> (scammers would be unlikely to put so much on the line, well
> not on the line but more correctly sacrificed)
What have they put on the line?
Several useful technologies they bothered to Patent.
Their names.
Their Careers and business.
Effort, of course, but all con games
take effort. Some of them take lots of organizing. This would pose no
problem if the rewards were large.
> Also they are not asking for any investment this side of verification by a
> Jury of 12 so they would need to somehow fool or rig the jury unless they
> want to be asking for investment after the jury of 12 have decleared it
> doesn't work.
I'm assuming that they have scored enormous amounts of investment already.
So you believe that it's already over, this isn't a part of the scam, the scam is over this is just to keep the current investors off their back until they can bother buying plane tickets?
Perhaps they weren't ready to pack everything immediately and this is a delayed getaway for the lazy?
But considering (I assume we both agree) that Free Energy is real we simply have to consider which is more likely, that this is 1: Some people honestly think they have FE but don't, 2: Some people honestly think they have FE and they do, 3: An elaborate hoax to fool current investors into believing they are going to get their monies worth.
Now considering that 1 assumes they are truthful it is unlikely the effect is so effective as to convince so many scientists (them and others who have tested it) although i fear that it isn't closed loop yet.
2 makes sense the only issue is that they are going about it in a way that Jed, you and I think is not really sensible but it's not totally absurd it has been effective advertisement and Mark Godles agrees with it so it's not a method that couldn't be used by inventors of a genuine FE device.
Also my only issue is that I believe the step is unnecessary and I have less faith in the general scientific community than them, but it is a method I would expect those who encountered FE out of chance discovery or who otherwise are closer to convention to try and do.
However I am very interested if you can make the argument for a con more plausible than you so far have, if this is a scam it's early detection will help save the FE community from further bad press when it is discovered.
The latest publicity ploy could of course be legit. Or it could be part
of the scam. They could easily be taking investors, yet loudly
announcing that they will not.
I suppose this is possible but IMO this goes beyond reasonable suspicion.
I would have little sympathy for any investor who would invest in someone that they can see is flatly lying to everyone but them.
Or they could be taking new funding from
their current investors
This can't be discounted, though it is an easy question to ask and if they publicly state no then the investors would know they are lying.
, while not accepting new invesTORS (just accepting
new investMENT.)
Time will tell. I hope. If its a scam, and they just suddenly drop
out of sight, would we even hear about it?
> Given these facts while I think the 'scientific verification' route is
> foolish I don't think scam really adds up.
Scientific verification is worthless unless they hand over their secrets
for independant testing.
They will either be giving people working devices or at the very least plans, either way I don't see it's likely they will keep many secrets from the jury.
Having people come onto their turf is more a
trick of stage magic. If you went in and tested their devices, would you
be *certain* that there was no exotic energy transmission method powering
it?
It is true that testing in the jury members own lab (and certainly in 12 of them) in various countries the chance of some exotic power transmission is so low as to fully discount, it appears from their statements the jury will test it in their own labs independently and one thing seemed to indicate they will construct or at least be able to construct the device under test themselves.
Heh. Sufficiently advanced power transmission is indistiguishable from
Overunity.
Yes, but almost as useful too. (almost)
Now if they're going to hand over devices two twelve skeptics, that's
different.
That's exactly what they said they are doing.
