On Sep 8, 2007, at 6:16 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
Horace,
Excellent ideas. As you mentioned in your first post, the
engineering problems for pulling this off would be daunting.
Now that you mention steam/CO2 as the transfer medium - and oil-
based material as a donor -
Actually I suggested components of "accumulator oils" as electron
transporters, but left open the possibility the ideal transport
mechanism might be a hybrid, with one transporter (e.g. gasoline or
CO2) accumulating charge from a donor (e.g. plastic) by a
triboelectric effect, and then transferring some of that charge in
gas form to a transporter (e.g. water) better able to carry the
charge to the acceptor (e.g. gold). This would give the oil multiple
roles as acceptor, transporter, and donor, but all transporters have
to play all three roles anyway.
that brings up the steam-electricity effect:
http://www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/prevens/steam.pdf
...which has been assumed, prior to now, to be an electrostatic
effect, but the dividing line is blurry here. The paper mentions a
huge electrical explosion from steam cleaning an oil tanker. I have
spent perhaps 100 hours over the years trying to find a robust
"steam-electricity" effect, but to no avail - never seem more than
a fractional volt of charge.
The main problem with the more general concept is - it is so simple
that there should be more fundamental R&D out there, but I haven't
found it yet...
Thanks for posting that link. I googled around for it but couldn't
find it. I've done a lot of that lately for other articles I've read
but can't find, so I assumed it might be false memories, but it's
probably just all around faulty memory. 8^)
Speaking of more fundamental research, it seems to me that what we
have described thus far are versions of the old "Dry Pile",
especially the "Clarendon Dry Pile". I'll write a separate post to
discuss that.
Jones
On Sep 6, 2007, at 7:23 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Wiki has a pretty good article on electron affinity:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_affinity
Here is the thought (I have not checked to see if this
is a "re-invention" of someone else's idea) - take two
electrodes and a working medium, and hydrogen is the
only working medium that fits into this concept very
well (73 kj/mol)...
- such that one electrode has a much lower electron
affinity than does the H2 (zinc works well ~0) and the
other has a much higher (gold plated copper works here
~223).
The donor electrode might be a slightly conductive plastic, or
other triboelectric donor material, which would thus also directly
provide the capacitive linkage. The trickle current though it
would have to be enough to recover for the next pulse. The
electron donor - transporter combination is still important if
tribolelectric effects are used to achieve the donation because
that is in fact an electron affinity effect.
http://www.purgit.com/static.html
Candidate electron transporter molecules might come substances
from the list of "accumulator oils" provided in the above article:
Accumulator oils
=============================
Natural gasolines
Kerosenes
White spirits
Motor and aviation gasolines
Jet fuels
Naphthas
Heating oils
Clean diesel oils
Lubricating oils
CO2 might be a candidate transporter molecule, and a CO2-Steam mix
might be effective, with one being more effective acceptor, the
other a more effective donor, with gas born electron exchanges
involved in addition.
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
