OK Mark, I apologize for using the phase "as usual". Most of your
posts are logical. However, in this case you not only made a statement
that I know to be untrue about religions, but also insulted my
patriotism. You have no understanding of my political views except I,
like an increasing number of people, and apparently you as well, have
discovered that the policies of the current Republican administration
are a disaster. Sincere and informed people can and should discuss
how the mess can be best cleaned up without questioning a person's
patriotism. Unless this discussion is done without excessive emotion
and by using the facts, we are not going to make any progress.
As for the discussion of scientific vs political subjects, the
political is important now because it will affect all of our lives
including our ability to do science. Unfortunately, on this list, the
political subjects seem to generate personal attacks while the science
does not. I'm sure once the electron is over, we will go back to the
personally neutral subject of science.
Ed
On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Mark Iverson wrote:
Ed wrote:
"As usual, your emotions get the better of logic"
Tell me how logic supports your conclusion of "As usual" when
referring to my post? To me, I'd have
to have read at least 4 to 6 postings on a topic in order to feel
like I would be justified in using
that phrase. Obviously, you think one or two (very small postings)
are adequate. From what I've
been reading of your posts (MANY more than 4 or 6 I might add) and
others, there is a whole lot more
emotion in them than in mine… The level of contempt and
condescension in your postings toward the
conservative viewpoint is very strong and if you can't see that,
then perhaps you should copy some
of your posts, delete your name from them and ask some people at the
local store to rate the emotion
in them on a scale of 1 to 10. Not whether they agree with them or
not, just the emotional 'tone'…
might be enlightening.
In fact, there is very little emotion here. What prompted my post
was that the s/n ratio on this
list is pretty much in the toilet right now, again. Why don't you
create a new list for political
discussions and keep this list for what it was meant. That was my
point… however poorly stated.
Sorry about that… Or, take a vote, and if the majority of Vorts
don't mind the engaging political
rants, then I'll not try to keep that stuff out of here.
To answer your assumptions and comments…
I work in a company with offices all over the world, and with all
kinds of people, from diverse
backgrounds and religions, and enjoy our conversations and admire
and respect their expertise. I
work closely with at least 2 (former) Iranian citizens, and asked
why they decided to come here and
become U.S. citizens... Care to know why? One, Farshid, even
converted from Islam to
Zoroastrianism. Care to know why?
My son-in-law has served three deployments in Iraq, and I'll take
his word for what the place was
like before we got there and when he left... And for how the average
Iraqi citizen feels about our
presence there. Frankly, I wish we weren't there at all…
I also realize that the extremists I referred to are a small # of
the muslim population, but you
don't see the muslim leaders coming out in strong opposition to the
radical sects. Why not?
Perhaps they are too afraid? That in itself speaks volumes...
You say that terrorist activity is not supported by the general
region. Saudi Arabia has unlimited
$ to help combat it, yet, are they? Not that I'm aware of. In
fact, there are some who think that
the Saudis are to some degree funding it. Have they sent in any
equipment or security forces to
help the Iraqi govt stabilize things? Their other neighbor, Iran, is
doing everything it can to
encourage the terrorist activities! So I reject your premise that
the region doesn't support that
behavior... And suggest that they could do a lot more to help… but
the leaders in that area would
rather build extravagant artificial islands and palaces. How did
they get all that wealth?
Capitalism perhaps?
You said:
"We killed thousands and destroyed a society in an attempt to kill a
few people who might try to
hurt us in the future"
And that former 'society' killed a hundred times that many (of it's
own people), so I guess your
solution is to just turn a blind eye to it… we haven't taken any
goods from that country, just the
opposite, nor their pride.
Granted, I'm not nearly caught up on the 250+ posting that are still
unread, but I don't sense much
'love of country' in what I've read so far…
As I've said before, I am no fan of the Bush admin, and am pretty
much fed up with most all
politicians… they are more concerned about the power struggle with
the opposing party, and how to
get back or maintain power, than legislating in a responsible manner
what's best for the average
citizen. I have no doubt that this country would be much better off
if we eliminated the political
parties altogether… people and politicians might begin to put
country first instead of party.
-Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms [HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Colin Powell and Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
As usual, your emotions get the better of logic. First of all, not
all Muslims are suicide bombers
nor is this an action that is supported by the general region. Also,
how do you separate this action
from when we operate when we bomb from the air? Of course, you can
say that we are trying to hit bad
people, which we miss on occasion, but we are sorry when innocent
people are killed. We killed
thousands and destroyed a society in an attempt to kill a few people
who might try to hurt us in the
future. But this is ok with you because we are acting in self
defense, but the suicide bombers are
not. In fact, this is he only way they have to fight us and the
better armed countries that take
their goods and pride.
As for my acrimonious feelings about this country, you seem not to
understand the difference in
feeling acrimonious about the actions of the Bush administration and
a love of country. Apparently
you approve of everything the administration has done. I hope you do
not have a mortgage and have a
good job that stays in this country. I will wait to see how you
feel in the future if past actions
are not personal enough to get your acrimony.
Ed
On Nov 2, 2008, at 4:55 PM, Mark Iverson wrote:
Gee Ed, I don't know any christians, buddists, scientologists or any
other belief systems that want to wipe out other belief systems;
that
would strap bombs on their children and handicapped, let alone 'sane'
adults, all in the name of their religion/god.
With all the acrimonious feelings you have about this country, sounds
like you'd be much happier in Iraq or Iran! I'll buy your ticket...
-Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms [HYPERLINK mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Colin Powell and Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan
How do you tell the good Christians from the bad Christians, Richard?
Surely you know that bad Christians exist. I suggest you use the
same
method you would apply to Christians.
Ed
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1761 - Release Date:
11/1/2008 7:56 PM
<winmail.dat>
