Religion and belief systems exist out side the realm of logic. They gain their power in part from the salient property of human nervous systems which could be called "pattern regonition". It the funamental to all our sensory systems and to our survival. It is how we make "sense" out of the sensory input and arrive at "how the world is". How good that model is affects our survival, our ability to predict and interpret. Animals share this and the ability to use symbols. Human use of words and labels extend the reach of pattern recognition and enables us to confuse words with things to our continuing peril.

There is a state of conciousness in which existence is perceived without the cloud of words and labels in which one can feel free and the instant somehow vital and alive. Many systems of practices and discipline have evolved to produce this state. I'm confident that Ed has been 'there' many times, listening for Nature's whisper [and chuckle]. Those who experience this persistently are known as saints and prophets. No positive description of it is complete, so writigs are filled with allegories, etc.

Unfortunately people create belief systems to blanace the chaos of existence. And the cloud of words makes one indetify self with words and symnbols. Attack that system and you undermine the sense of "self". To one who sees beyond the words -- where the finger points, instead of the pointing finger -- all the sayings are from a common source applied in different ways.

I should point out that "science" is a "belief system" as much as "religion". We at the fringe see this all the time. As for "logic" there are strict rules of play in the "universe of discourse" --- but the decision on what to admit to the universe of discourse is as subjectinv and arbitrary as jury selection for the OJ Simpson trial.

Mike Carrell

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