In other words you have a gut instinct that I'm wrong, I mean, organic HAS to be better, right? Just look at the name. But you have no clue in what way I'm wrong, and you'd rather not do the research and shatter your world view. Sigh. Just like all the anti alt sci types. This is a SCIENCE forum.
On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM, John Berry <aethe...@gmail.com> wrote: > You have some quite unbalanced points in there but I don't have the will or > time to argue. > > What I can say is that the contamination issues you mention have much > misinfo around them. > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:54 PM, leaking pen <itsat...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Copper sulfate and other copper salts are pretty much the ONLY >> fungicides used by organic farming. The sprays used today by >> conventional farming are NOT the poisonous , groundwater polluting, >> wildlife killing soups they were 20 years ago. We figured out that >> certain things were bad, and then stopped using them. But organic >> farming gets a lot of breaks on proving things are safe. >> >> what these bills ACTUALLY do is create accountability, require that >> what methods a farm use are collected, and that data given to the >> government, and that things are properly labeled. It gives the >> government branch that is created the right to say, this process is >> NOT safe, here is the science saying it is not safe, STOP IT. And it >> allows better tracking of where food comes from. So that when things >> DO go wrong, like say, the tomato listeria issue, or the tomato e coli >> issue, or the spinach and lettuce e coli issue, or the peanut butter >> salmonella issue, from the past couple years (ALL of which were, shock >> and surprise , ORGANIC foods with bacteria issues). >> >> Ohh, and it will make it easier to prevent things like when the >> genetically modified corn that wasn't approved for human consumption >> ended up in taco bell taco shells. Of course, that corn was modified >> to naturally produce more BT, that people screamed about becuase it >> can cause issues such as breakdowns and stoppages in the human gut. >> And which is the same chemical that is the main organic farm spray >> used as a pesticide. Interesting. Thankfully, it breaks down quickly >> in direct sunlight, or with cooking, or with a few seconds of uv >> radiation. So the corn that made it into the shells, since it had >> been irradiated then cooked, was harmless. >> >> But... whoops. If used on lettuce, it can get down into the nooks and >> crannys between leaves, survive the sunlight in that matter, and since >> any uv irradiation at all means you cant market it as organic, it >> doesn't get irradiated. Hope you wash your lettuce REALLY REALLY >> WELL! >> >> (For note, my specialty is biochemistry, I am VERY concerned about the >> goings on of such places as Monsanto (spits on the ground) and grow a >> lot of my own food as a backyard gardener. But unfortunately, a lot of >> really UNSAFE practices got okayed for the organic label, and lot of >> neccesary safe practices screamed down by people who didn't understand >> the science of it, and at this point, the organic label on food COULD >> be good, but is often not. ) >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Berry <aethe...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > Um, I don't know for sure but I don't think that the certified organic >> > produce used the sprays you are talking about, certainly I know that it >> > has >> > a far lower level of toxicity in the produce and beter levels of >> > vitamins, >> > phytonutrients and minerals. >> > >> > If certified organic in the US is so poorly regulated to include such >> > sprays >> > then that's another issues, not the case here. (NZ) >> > >> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:39 PM, leaking pen <itsat...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> This is becuase the "organic" old school sprays that most organic >> >> farms use are actually MORE toxic. Most modern bug and fungus sprays >> >> are designed to break down quickly and NOT poison groundwater. Where >> >> as the old "organics".... One of the common fungicides is copper >> >> acetate or sulfate. Which breaks down, and causes copper poisoning of >> >> the soil. Organic right now is actually WORSE for the environment. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM, John Berry <aethe...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Organic and Small Farmers and Ranchers; Natural Food Products Farmers >> >> > Under >> >> > Attack... >> >> > The Obama administration is pushing farm controls through Congress as >> >> > fast >> >> > as possible and has coordinated the bills so there will be no debate >> >> > and >> >> > the >> >> > committee meetings >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > <http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-C >> >> > ole-090214-935.html> are closed. There are less than two weeks to >> >> > stop >> >> > the >> >> > farming bills, H.R. 875 and S. 425. could put organic farms out of >> >> > business. The group Democracy in action writes that the new "food >> >> > safety" >> >> > bills before in Congress were written and sponsored by big agri >> >> > companies >> >> > like Monsanto, Cargill, Tysons, and ADM. The USDA would be given the >> >> > power >> >> > to force organic farmers what to feed their animals, how to medically >> >> > "treat" them and what toxic "sprays" to use. There would be penalties >> >> > beyond the ability of most small farmers to pay. There are buried >> >> > regulations in the bills which criminalize all aspects of farming by >> >> > listing >> >> > them as "sources of seed contamination". Farmers would be forced to >> >> > use >> >> > only approved seeds. They could be forced to give up a good seed >> >> > cleaner >> >> > and put in a building and equipment for a million and half dollars. >> >> > These >> >> > bills are set to industrialize all farms and force farmers to buy >> >> > chemicals >> >> > and drugs and face $500,000 penalties if they refuse. More >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > <http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26 >> >> > 714 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > <http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2 >> >> > 6714&t> &t >> >> > Farmers Under Attack... >> >> > This urgent message is from our correspondent, Linn Cohen-Cole on >> >> > February >> >> > 17, 2009: >> >> > We have less than two weeks to stop the take over the farms and >> >> > ranches. >> >> > H.R. 875 and S. 425 >> >> > We need to rally people immediately. >> >> > The new administration is pushing new farm controls through Congress >> >> > as >> >> > fast >> >> > as possible and have coordinated the bills so there will be no debate >> >> > and >> >> > the committee meetings are closed. >> >> > Transparency, change, undoing Bush's regulations, giving the public >> >> > time >> >> > to >> >> > comment, grassroots anything? Our entire food system and thus our >> >> > health >> >> > is >> >> > being decided without the public knowing and those who do know have >> >> > zero >> >> > access and the media is absent and they are moving at warp speed to >> >> > sew >> >> > this >> >> > up. >> >> > Would you put these out, in this order, showing the article as you do >> >> > so >> >> > people are more likely to read it? They are imperfect but the closest >> >> > I've >> >> > come to explaining how the game is going to be played. No direct, >> >> > frontal >> >> > assault on organic farming but an insidious process of "infecting" >> >> > organic >> >> > farming... >> >> > Example: imagine Joel Salatin's wonderful organic farm under the >> >> > direction >> >> > of the USDA, with detailed instructions on what he must feed and >> >> > when, >> >> > how >> >> > he must medically "treat" his animals and with what, what he must >> >> > "spray" >> >> > and when, ... you get the picture. These bills will industrialize all >> >> > farms >> >> > and insure the farmers are forced to buy chemicals and drugs. Organic >> >> > is >> >> > dead. As well as human control over the food supply. As well as >> >> > health. >> >> > Schoolmarm approach to punishing farmers out of farming. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-Co >> >> > le-090214-935.html >> >> > Bills being rushed through Congress, set to destroy organic farming. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > <http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-bills-being-rushe-by-Linn-Cohen-C >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-bills-being-rushe-by-Linn-Cohen-Co >> >> > le-090217-758.html >> >> > Linn Cohen-Cole is a dedicated researcher and "Paul Revere" of health >> >> > freedom. At her urging, we've set up an Action Item for you to send >> >> > an >> >> > unmistakable message to your representatives in the Senate and the >> >> > House. We >> >> > must educate Congress that you do not want organic and small farmers >> >> > regulated out of existence. You do not want "Big Agra" regulations, >> >> > perhaps >> >> > necessary to protect the public when dealing with large scale agra >> >> > business, >> >> > applied to organic and small family farms and ranches or to natural >> >> > and >> >> > organic food products, including Dietary Supplements. >> >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zP2teJMuCs >> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> > ------------------------------------ >> >> > ATTENTION PLEASE: >> >> > The Symphonic Health List is for educational purpose only; learning >> >> > different health and healing modalities and exchanging opinions and >> >> > experiences, and not to give medical advice. 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