An additional thought. I believe that one issue would be that such an experiment might well become "deficient" of the charge that is applied to the plasma.
So it might be an idea to either have it always grounded, although I know some FE effects don't work when grounded so a periodic switched regrounding might be needed. (hmmm this may be visible in Stufflers vid come to think of it, the effect starts dying off) Actually I have thought of a reason to believe that it is negative charges that are distributed into the environment. (besides mere logic) Lightening is the mother of all arcs and we know that lightening storms produce negative ions, well I am sure these negative ions are distributed as the plasma column is extinguished. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:35 PM, John Berry <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Kyle Mcallister < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> --- On Tue, 6/16/09, John Berry <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > From: John Berry <[email protected]> >> > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Enough Already >> > To: [email protected] >> > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 8:41 PM >> > Too bad about the helium ;)The >> > charecteristic we want is for the plasma to be very exact >> > about when it is and is not a plasma.It must >> > de-excite as rapidly as possible. >> > I am not sure but I'd suspect that would >> > work better at higher rather than lower pressures? >> >> Okay, reading your original post more carefully leads me to this >> understanding, correct me if I'm wrong. >> >> 1. A plasma is established in a tube with a, say, glass envelope. > > > Yes, though Gray has air and hence no inner tube between the plasma and > the metal terminal. > > The outside of the envelope is metal foil. > > > That should work however everything indicates that the results will be > better if wire is used as it's capacitance will not be greatly diminished > but the contact with the escaping charges will be reduced. > > > >> The plasma (conductive) is considered one plate of a capacitor, with the >> glass as a dielectric. The foil is the second plate. > > > Yes > > >> 2. The plasma is switched 'off', meaning, there is no longer a conductor >> in the tube, just an inert gas. The 1 terminal capacitor remaining is the >> foil plate on the outside. >> 3. In some way power is generated by this. > > > This part is not a mystery, if the gas is not in a plasma state, not a > conductor then we have a single plate. > This raises significantly the voltage and energy of the remaining plate. > > This if how electrostatic generators work, only there mechanical work is > used to pull the plates apart. > Here however this is achieved freely (to us) by a phenomena found in > charged plasmas collapsing under the right conditions. > > >> >> The guy that suggested this to you has some odd stories, but that's okay, >> we're trying to perform an experiment, which seems reasonably simple to do. >> >> Neon gas is pretty easily excited, and only needs a moderate voltage to be >> excited. The higher the frequency, the better it works. A car ignition coil >> can be used to make a decent HV supply: > > > Please note we want smooth, Stiffler used a medical HV source as noisier > options with ripples failed. > > >> >> >> A timer circuit, either a 4046 VCO or a 555 timer is used to trigger the >> base of a transistor or the gate of a MOSFET. This in turn dumps 12V at >> maybe 10A across the primary of the ignition coil. The output HV is at >> whatever frequency the 4046 or 555 is set at. These sort of HV outputs tend >> to be pretty fast rise and fall deals. For 60 cycles, an ignition coil can >> be pulsed simply with a 600 watt light dimmer (DIAC-TRIAC) with a series >> capacitor to limit current. It looks simple, but it will produce some damn >> nasty voltages. > > > I would recommend anything that can be full wave rectified and filtered, we > want the plasma to be very stable and then be turned of very suddenly > preferably by full disconnection at both ends. > We then need that plasma to entirely de-excite and collapse at once. > >> >> >> At the local...uh...exotic store...they sell lights of many different >> kinds for...well, I'm not sure exactly what they sell them for, but they do. >> One such light bulb is like an incandescent bulb, the big globe type >> decorative ones with the standard Edison screw base. But the inside is like >> a giant NE-2 neon. You can get them with many different shaped electrodes... >> 8-balls, dice, or if we want this thing to for sure be impressive, naked >> ladies. :) > > > Ah! > One thing though, Hiddink said that bulbs with a coating would not work > probably because the coating acts as a capacitor plate? > >> >> >> Anyhow, the entire interior of the envelope will fill with a bright orange >> plasma if a high frequency HV AC source is connected to it between the >> center electrode and a foil wrapping on the outside. I never noticed >> anything particularly unusual about this setup, but perhaps I am missing >> something. Is a DC 'charge' potential supposed to be applied across the cap >> before the plasma collapses, > > > YES! > > Ok, critical components: > > The plasma must be charged relative to the metal "plate", this can be > achieved through a separate voltage source and in most cases is, possibly a > partial exception being Ed Gray who uses a resistor critical for mantaining > the arc at a voltage but he does use a battery too on the metal "plate". > > Personally I favor the plasma having an absolute negative potential while > charged as I imagine electrons being easier to have "fly away" than a > positive charge, but for completeness both should be tried. > > The metal "plate" will function better if it is a mesh or wire grid, we > want capacitance but with as little coverage as possible. (Stiffler > confirmed mesh worked better) > > Stiffler initially failed to get the effect when using a regular HV source > and only when he switched to a medical HV supply for it's low ripple did he > get any results. > > Finally we want a very swift disconnection and Stiffler seemed to agree > with Hiddinks patent that disconnection at both ends is desirible to > de-excite the plasma fast. > > > >
