At 1:14 AM on , November 08, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote To: [email protected]; [email protected]
At 06:07 PM 11/7/2009, Frank Roarty wrote: >Abd, > I have to take exception with your arguments. The claim is the EM >drive is an "open" system based on Relativity. What does that mean and how does it apply to the emdrive? [reply] Open in the sense that it can utilize energy to displace itself spatially. A reaction drive is obviously open where you exchange momentum with an ejected fuel but you would not call an electric plane reactionless because it is directing the ambient atmosphere into thrust. Shawyer is suggesting a relativistic linkage between his apparatus and space-time such that just like the electric plane prop he can create a differential inside his cavity vs outside. This is the same force that Jan Naudts has proposed could explain the controversial hydrino as actually relativistic hydrogen, His proposal eliminates the fractional quantum state argument and suggests the atoms are being perceived relativistically. The active device is the Casimir cavity which partially "shields" itself from the ambient gravitational field falling outside the cavity walls. Hydrogen inside decelerates relative to the observer outside and gives the appearance of a sub ground state. That interpretation is powered by the ambient gravitational field to create anomalous heat but Shawyer isn't trying to derive energy from the external field, instead he is trying to create a larger differential of the internal field using a microwave power source. This means he is not locked into a tiny Casimir cavity but his results would still be proportional to the strength of the external field. I can also see why the "thrust" might be less than the devices ability to keep station. Again the ether -atmosphere analogy - His device may create a "pressure" differential inside the cavity compared to the ambient field acting more like a balloon. I know M&M experiment disproves the ether but here in this experiment Shawer claims to be bending space-time inside the cavity and trying to make it react with space-time outside the cavity -perhaps space-time can only react with reshaped versions of itself and this is the elusive oar we are seeking? [end reply] >You can't say " free fall in deep space, so that gravitational fields are >uniform." I defined that as an experimental condition, a thought-experiment, as it were. So, yes, I *can* say it. If the emdrive is not operating, it would behave in that space like any other lump of matter, right? Or do you disagree? [reply] ok -turning it on and off with a timer is fair but you are limiting the effect and making things harder. The device appears to need a differential between inside and outside the cavity and the effect would be muted with a reduced ambient g field. [end reply] > The cavity claims to break that uniformity. It breaks the uniformity of gravitational fields from the rest of the universe? Huh? [reply] YES -it breaks the isotropy and in a non uniform non gradient kind of way. The walls of the cavity represent an abrupt equivalence boundary and unlike the slow concentration of the field descending down a gravity well this boundary is immediate and may represents a depletion zone - a gravitational hill if you will - instead of a gravitational well. [end reply] > Even when you say F=ma >remember that "a" is going to be dilated inside the cavity. Eh? "a" refers to the acceleration of the mdrive system as seen from a non-accelerating frame. At relativistic speeds, yes, a declines (not "dilates"), but we are not talking about relativistic speeds for the emdrive system. Inside the cavity, what's travelling? Hint: it's not accelerating, it travels at constant velocity no matter what the frame of reference is. [reply] There is very little matter "travelling" inside the cavity and think this is an issue that will be considered if the Brits really do investigate this further. It may be necessary to limit the physical contents of the cavity to reinforce or be transparent to the RF energy but even now there really is no such thing as "nothing". Some tiny bits of matter are being scrambled in Shawyers microwave oven. Not that matter is needed if the RF can bend space-time because gravitation is based on time, but I think matter -perhaps noble gas- would help extend the anomaly [end reply] > If the EM cavity >really allows a break in gravitational isotropy where the gravitational >field inside the cavity is shielded to different degrees from the ambient >external field then you have the potential for a cavity teeming full of >different inertial frames see Cavity QED >http://th-www.if.uj.edu.pl/acta/vol27/pdf/v27p2409.pdf. Apparently it is not only Shawyer who is good at blarney. What about the emdrive would cause any shielding effect at all? It's not claimed, and there is no reason to expect it, nor to need it as an explanation. [reply] The device is claimed to be based on relativity and it uses "radiation pressure" against The geometry of a microwave cavity. Whenever you have a microwave cavity we know the spontaneous emission of photons from an atom of diffused gas is "delayed" - I know this cavity is "supposedly" evacuated but the point is a relativistic interpretation say that delayed emission is only "delayed" from our perspective and that the emission rate was unchanged from the perspective of the atom inside the cavity. The atom inside the cavity may appear "faster/smaller in a profile to us outside the cavity. Since gravity is based on time we would get gravitational anomalies whenever space-time is bent -if they can be summed beyond the atomic level to enter the macro world then there is a somewhat plausible basis for the EM drive. "A cavity teeming full of different inertial frames." An "inertial frame" is not an object, it's a concept or a definition, similar to "coordinate." There is no limit to the number of coordinate systems. So ... what is being said here? [reply] I am saying that the RF propagation and resonance inside a closed microwave "horn" Is creating pockets of bent space time. In the case of the hydrino the relativistic interpretation means the atoms are in different inertial frames depending on local geometry -In the EM drive you don't have much matter in the evacuated cavity but the bent space-time would still suggest gravitational anomalies. If the EM drive theory regarding radiation pressure and relativity is correct then these anomalies could sum into a meaningful differential between the external world and the cavity. [end reply] > Calculations for >stacked Casimir cavities by Di Fiore et all resulted is an inconsequential >force opposing gravity in tiny stacked Casimir cavities but The EM drive >uses an external RF energy source so it may allow more force via radiation >pressure and even some directional thrust by moving these frames as a >function of relative motion to the widening cavity. My bet is that this >"radiation pressure" inside a closed waveguide creates moving suppression >modes that sweep in frequency proportional to geometry. If this were myth >busters I would rule this one as somewhat plausible. It is possible that with a certain background the above paragraph would have decipherable meaning. However, when I look closely at the paragraph, there are clues that it, too, is a joke, a jape. I'm not sure who is playing this joke on whom, but what is mentioned is an "inconsequential force." What's an inconsequential force? If there is no "consequence," on what basis do we call it a "force" at all? It's an oxymoron. [reply] The deceleration of the external gravitational field inside a "stack" of Casimir cavities would normally be an inconsequential 10 E-14 Newtons of force as calculated by Italian researchers Di Fiore et all. This force is swamped by Casimir force inside a single cavity and demonstrates the difficulty in trying to separate the balanced fields between the plates and the cavity. I propose that For every cavity depletion zone where longer flux are discouraged there is an opposite concentration zone in the lattice nuclei that concentrates it. Trying to use RF energy to create these same sort of fields inside a closed horn is probably creating balanced fields of concentration and depletion and similar to the Casimir cavity it is only the "geometry" that is allowing an imbalance to sum into the macro world. Best Regards Fran Alternate THEORY for Hydrino based on Relativity http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/blog/7200-alternate-theory-hydrino-based-rela tivity-26779.html
