On 01/19/2011 10:25 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > > Peter, > > > > Thank you for clearing up the fact that the internal temperature is 400 C. > > > > There was some disinformation circulating about a much higher temperature. >
*/PLEASE!/* Let's strive for a little more precision in the language here! It was *not* "disinformation", which is "misinformation that is _deliberately_ disseminated in order to influence or confuse rivals" (WordNet 2.0) The assertion that it was 1500 degrees was clearly either true or a simple error. It wasn't anyone's /deliberate/ attempt at clouding the issue. > > > Jones > > > > *From:* Peter Gluck [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:10 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:a longer duration black box test would prove issue > without disclosure > > > > When used for heating in homes, the device delivers very probably hot > water. In the case of the experiment, the flow of the water was > seemingly limited by the pump (we don't know its performance > characteristics), the connection tube, the cooling space. Cooling > water moves in pipe with maximum 2-3 meters/second > > Please do not forget- the temperature inside the generator is > tipically >400 C so it is easy to deliver steam- and that's in some > way more convincing than hot water > > > > Peter > > On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 11:52 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > On 01/18/2011 02:52 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > CLOSE THE LOOP. > > He [Rossi] says he can run without any electrical input. Ergo he > /can/ close the loop, without the expense of a Stirling motor and > generator. > > > Actually, that is heat input, from an AC resistance heater. Presumably > it would work as well with combustion heating. He said he can run > without heat input, but it is dangerous. I do not think he elaborated > on that. I gather it means he uses heat to modulate the reaction. > > The Piantelli Ni experiments required high temperature and external > heating. > > I believe the control factors are heat and pressure. The H2 is at 2 > atm, according to Celani. When you depressurize the cell, the reaction > soon stops. That's good news. Cold fusion reactions are sometimes > nearly as difficult to stop as they are to start. > > I assume the Rossi device has some internal self-regulation, or what > Stan Pons called a "memory" that keeps electrochemical cells going > back to the same power level after you refill the cell, tap on it, or > disturb it some other way. I also assume there is something about the > Rossi device that acts analogously to a self-quenching CANDU nuclear > reactor. I am only speculating; I have no knowledge of this. The > mechanism would be something like the metal degassing at very high > temperature, cooling down, and then absorbing the gas and reacting > again. That would explain why it quickly stops when you degas > manually. I suspect the electric heater is in the core, and the cold > fusion reaction occurs in the Ni powder surrounding that. I recall > some of the Piantelli devices had heaters attached directly to the Ni bar. > > I think Rossi claimed the internal temperature of this thing is > 1500°C. Ed Storms pointed out that cannot be right, because the > melting point of Ni is 1,453°C. Perhaps that is a misunderstanding, or > a mistranslation. Still, it must be pretty hot in there because the > device is small and well insulated. Even with 400 W or 1000 W from the > AC heater it must be quite hot internally. I assume (but I do not > know) that the heater is the hottest part. That's how I imagine it works. > > > > Actually, I'd expect the joule heater to be rather cool relative to > the reactive elements once the thing gets rolling. The reaction is > contributing 10 kW or more at that point; the joule heater is just > plugging along at 400 watts. > > That, also, makes it seem a little surprising that the joule heater > continues to be used *after* "ignition". It's contributing just 4% of > the total heat; you'd think they could just shut it off after the > thing starts up. > > Of course, the reacting surface area may be large enough that it stays > cooler than the heater, and perhaps the intense heat near the heater > wire has something to do with the reason they continue to use it after > "ignition". > > Incidentally, a 1500 degree internal temperature also makes the use of > unpressurized water for a coolant seem to me to be a little iffy. > Perhaps that has something to do with the reason they boil it all to > steam, rather than running the pump harder and getting out hot water > (which, it has been suggested, might have provided a more rock-solid > output heat measure). > > > > > - Jed > > >
