Dear Horace, Yes our points of view are quite similar. These 2 tests can be characterized as partially aborted, unfortunately.Or as an other disfunctionality starting with "early" DOING AND NOT DOING in the same time, is the house's specialty. Engineers are taught "If you do something, do it well and finish it -at the end. Or do not do it.at all." Taught at the school and by Life.
Peter On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Horace Heffner <[email protected]>wrote: > I am having trouble making sense of your comments. I'll cover the > interpretations I have. > > To be of any commercial value total energy out has to be greater than total > energy in for a prolonged period. If not, might as well use a good > commercial electric boiler. After all these years discussing the foibles > of calorimetry it should be obvious that you can not measure energy out vs > energy in for a highly dynamic thermal and electrical system by taking > occasional momentary power readings. > > My comments regarding "steam quality" is merely aimed at definitions > apparently being used by some, i.e. that it involves entrained water > droplets only, and not flowing or spurting water. That is strictly about > word use, not the actual physics applied. > > The test was interesting, but not totally convincing, even to Mats Lewan. > > I only saw a report of one test for this device: > > http://tinyurl.com/3lqn52r > > I get the impression more is to come. > > Best regards, > > Horace Heffner > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ > > > On Sep 14, 2011, at 1:18 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > > In my opinion steam enthalpy is both necessary and sufficient. This is an > industrial test not a scientific one. > The question is if these two new surprisingly short tests are more > reliable and convincing than the former 7 ones. > "to generate heat" and "to be a new energy source" are not > identical. > > Peter > > > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Horace Heffner > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> On Sep 13, 2011, at 10:55 PM, Peter Gluck wrote: >> >> a) See the E-cat run in the self sustaining mode >>> >>> http://www.nyteknik.se/**nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/** >>> article3264362.ece<http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece> >>> >>> b) Here is Rossi' s 1 Megawatt plant: http://www.nyteknik.se/** >>> nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/**article3264361.ece<http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264361.ece> >>> >>> Peter >>> -- >>> Dr. Peter Gluck >>> Cluj, Romania >>> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.**com <http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com> >>> >>> >> >> >> The experiment report is very interesting: >> >> http://www.nyteknik.se/**incoming/article3264365.ece/** >> BINARY/Report+E-cat+test+**September+7+%28pdf%29<http://www.nyteknik.se/incoming/article3264365.ece/BINARY/Report+E-cat+test+September+7+%28pdf%29> >> >> http://tinyurl.com/3lqn52r >> >> Various problems with other runs fixed. A long run will be even more >> interesting. Situation is now complex due to no thermal equilibrium being >> established. Constant dynamics require *measuring* cumulative energy in vs >> out. Hopefully some kind of calorimetry will be done on the output, and >> cumulative energy in vs energy out will be measured via kWh meter and >> independent calorimetry on the steam/water output. >> >> It would be nice if everyone could use the standard thermodynamics >> definition of "steam quality" or "vapor quality". "The quality of steam can >> be quantitatively described by steam quality (steam dryness), the proportion >> of saturated steam in a saturated water/steam mixture.[4] i.e., a steam >> quality of 0 indicates 100% water while a steam quality of 1 (or 100%) >> indicates 100% steam." See: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Vapor_quality<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_quality> >> >> Steam quality chi is given by: >> >> chi = (mass of vapor)/(mass total) >> >> "Mass total" clearly includes liquid water, because a steam quality of 0 >> indicates 100% water by mass. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Horace Heffner >> http://www.mtaonline.net/~**hheffner/<http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Peter Gluck > Cluj, Romania > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com > > > > > > > -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
