Hi Horace, Your 3rd scenario may be right. From mats Report "According to Andrea Rossi the increased dimension is due to a larger volume inside where the water is heated, approximately 30 liters, and a larger heat-exchanger with a greater surface which should result in a more effective heat transfer from the reactor to the circulating water and *also in additional heating of the steam after vaporization."
*Just strange how this works at the outlet and it also means the pressure may be 1bar as suggested by Mats. This will change a lot of the energy calculations. Colin On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:36 AM, Alan J Fletcher <a...@well.com> wrote: > I'm still trying to figure out what's going on! > > The outlet port is very high on the unit ... if it was just the overflow > from a kettle boiler then there wouldn't be any room for steam. > I might have to go back to thinking of it as a Tube boiler, where the flow > of the steam carries the water with it. > > But in the early stages of the process the overflow water clearly pulses, > just a fraction of a second later than the sound of the pump. That implies > it's directly connected to the incoming water. It's a kettle again. > > I've put up a few of my calculator results at > http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_sep11_b.php > > It's clearly producing SOMETHING ... but how MUCH? > How does it get the 130C at the instrument port and 50% fluid water at the > outlet? > > I think there are three ways of reaching 130C. > > a) The internal pressure is 3 Bars, and the quality is 0.5. The water and > the steam are in equilibrium at 130C. > > As the 130C steam leaves the system the pressure drops to 1 Bar and the > temperature drops to 100C > (adiabatic expansion -- a vertical line on the temperature-enthalpy > diagram) -- and it might start condensing. > > But the 130C water would probably flash into steam, and in the process > cool down to 100C. > So do we end up with MORE or LESS water than we had inside the eCat? > > b) The internal pressure is 1 Bar (atmospheric, plus a little > back-pressure), as a single chamber. > > In this case, the only way you can reach 130C is for ALL the water to > evaporate, and for the steam to be super-heated. > > The 130C 100% Dry superheated steam leaves the eCat. But to get the > observed 50% fluid water, this has to cool and condense in about 10cm. > I don't think you can get rid of enough heat that quickly : it need > nucleation sites, which will be available only on the wall of the tube. > > c) The eCat is structured as TWO chambers : the first is a kettle boiler at > 100C (1 Bar). Any excess fluid overflows directly, at 100C. > The steam component then goes into a second chamber, where it is > superheated to 130C at 1 Bar. Because it is a separate chamber > it does not have to be in equilibrium with the water. > > Note : this separation of boiler and superheater is very common in > traditional boiler design. > > WARNING : needs a non-proportional font like courier !!! > > Port > | | > *------------------------------* *----* > | Superheated 1 Bar | | | > | Steam 130C ==> | | outlet hose > 95% Dry | *------------------------ > 1 Bar 100C | ^ *=====================* Superheated steam =====> > Steam | | | CORE | 130C > |~~~~~| |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > overflow fluid 100C > | | | *---------* ~ *----- > | *=====================* | | ~ | > ~~~~~ ====| Water | | ~ | > Inlet | Boil 100C | Water Trap > 100C > *--------------------------------------* > > > This 130C steam also exits through the hose, and may (but need not) > condense. > It does not have time to reach equilibrium with the 100C overflow fluid > over the 10cm distance. > > The main reason I DON'T like this is that the outlet is so high on the > eCat. > > Missing measurements: > > a) Pressure at the instrument port (to confirm it is 1 Bar) > b) Temperature of the overflow fluid water -- should be 100C > c) Temperature of the steam exiting the eCat -- if it was superheated at > 1 Bar then it should still be at 130C > > > I can't figure out the "dumping" of the water at the end, either. Is it > 100C water, or is it 130C water? 1 Bar or 3 Bars ? > > I've never seen 25L of boiling water dumped through a tap, so I don't know > what it should look like. > The general argument is the same as for the hose outlet -- 130C water would > flash VERY rapidly. > > ps -- This is a first///// second draft of what I'm thinking. I'll change > my mind again tomorrow! > > >
