Hi Colin,
Alan Fletcher gets the credit for that scenario.
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
On Sep 16, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Colin Hercus wrote:
Hi Horace,
Your 3rd scenario may be right. From mats Report
"According to Andrea Rossi the increased
dimension is due to a larger volume inside where the water is heated,
approximately 30 liters, and a larger heat-exchanger with a greater
surface which should result in a more effective heat transfer from the
reactor to the circulating water and also in additional heating of
the steam
after vaporization."
Just strange how this works at the outlet and it also means the
pressure may be 1bar as suggested by Mats. This will change a lot
of the energy calculations.
Colin
On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 1:36 AM, Alan J Fletcher <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out what's going on!
The outlet port is very high on the unit ... if it was just the
overflow from a kettle boiler then there wouldn't be any room for
steam.
I might have to go back to thinking of it as a Tube boiler, where
the flow of the steam carries the water with it.
But in the early stages of the process the overflow water clearly
pulses, just a fraction of a second later than the sound of the
pump. That implies it's directly connected to the incoming water.
It's a kettle again.
I've put up a few of my calculator results at http://lenr.qumbu.com/
rossi_ecat_sep11_b.php
It's clearly producing SOMETHING ... but how MUCH?
How does it get the 130C at the instrument port and 50% fluid water
at the outlet?
I think there are three ways of reaching 130C.
a) The internal pressure is 3 Bars, and the quality is 0.5. The
water and the steam are in equilibrium at 130C.
As the 130C steam leaves the system the pressure drops to 1 Bar
and the temperature drops to 100C
(adiabatic expansion -- a vertical line on the temperature-
enthalpy diagram) -- and it might start condensing.
But the 130C water would probably flash into steam, and in the
process cool down to 100C.
So do we end up with MORE or LESS water than we had inside the
eCat?
b) The internal pressure is 1 Bar (atmospheric, plus a little back-
pressure), as a single chamber.
In this case, the only way you can reach 130C is for ALL the
water to evaporate, and for the steam to be super-heated.
The 130C 100% Dry superheated steam leaves the eCat. But to get
the observed 50% fluid water, this has to cool and condense in
about 10cm.
I don't think you can get rid of enough heat that quickly : it
need nucleation sites, which will be available only on the wall of
the tube.
c) The eCat is structured as TWO chambers : the first is a kettle
boiler at 100C (1 Bar). Any excess fluid overflows directly, at 100C.
The steam component then goes into a second chamber, where it
is superheated to 130C at 1 Bar. Because it is a separate chamber
it does not have to be in equilibrium with the water.
Note : this separation of boiler and superheater is very common
in traditional boiler design.
WARNING : needs a non-proportional font like courier !!!
Port
| |
*------------------------------* *----*
| Superheated 1 Bar | | |
| Steam 130C ==> | | outlet hose
95% Dry |
*------------------------
1 Bar 100C | ^ *=====================* Superheated steam
=====>
Steam | | | CORE | 130C
|~~~~~| |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ overflow fluid 100C
| | | *---------* ~
*-----
| *=====================* | | ~ |
~~~~~ ====| Water | | ~ |
Inlet | Boil 100C | Water
Trap 100C
*--------------------------------------*
This 130C steam also exits through the hose, and may (but need
not) condense.
It does not have time to reach equilibrium with the 100C
overflow fluid over the 10cm distance.
The main reason I DON'T like this is that the outlet is so high
on the eCat.
Missing measurements:
a) Pressure at the instrument port (to confirm it is 1 Bar)
b) Temperature of the overflow fluid water -- should be 100C
c) Temperature of the steam exiting the eCat -- if it was
superheated at 1 Bar then it should still be at 130C
I can't figure out the "dumping" of the water at the end, either.
Is it 100C water, or is it 130C water? 1 Bar or 3 Bars ?
I've never seen 25L of boiling water dumped through a tap, so I
don't know what it should look like.
The general argument is the same as for the hose outlet -- 130C
water would flash VERY rapidly.
ps -- This is a first///// second draft of what I'm thinking.
I'll change my mind again tomorrow!
