you are right scientist would love to search on LENR. Some did it officially and got black listed by their administration and the community afraid of the press reactions, thus of politicians and citizen (furious of fund waste) Some did is officiously and keep the results in drawaer Some did it in a big organisation, quite tolerant and not supervizing too much (Nasa, spawar) provided it is not mediatic... when it get mediatic they had to stop.
big corp would love to make LENR work. some even tried really, but failed and were de-funded after the problem in my opinion is the media blocus on LENR... all other actors (scientists, gov, corp) did what they could in the real mediatic world... most people don't know more about LENR that the official "it is a fraud". seeing how people will accepte the blocus of the past will be fun/sad to see... probably the media will put the blame on innocents, as usual. after all they control the official truth. 2012/1/24 Giovanni Santostasi <gsantost...@gmail.com> > Harry, > I agree with you. In the end one has to rely on experimentation. If one > builds a machine that works at over unity and this is verified all over the > world, on a regular basis, by many independent experimenter than no matter > what the theory says, this phenomenon should be accepted. > > What I cannot accept is that the scientific community purposefully would > suppress evidence for such a phenomenon. Scientists are very eager to find > anomalous events that could change our understanding of the world. > Discovering or contributing to the understanding of such anomalies could > mean a guaranteed Nobel Prize. > > It is that the standards are high to show that this is a reliable anomaly > and something that everybody (at least in that particular field specialized > scientific community) verify. > > Few examples come to mind just in relatively recent times : 1) because it > was just mentioned, parity violation 2) the acceleration of the expansion > of the universe 3) neutrino oscillations and so on. > > So I'm not sure I would insist in some conspiracy from the scientific > community in suppressing LENR. I bet most scientists would be ecstatic if > one day somebody can produce reliable LENR supporting results (or any other > anomalous over unity energy experiment). > > Giovanni > > > > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Harry Veeder <hveeder...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Analysis of the design using established physics predicts that it will >> not exhibit pertual motion when it is built. It also goes without >> saying that you can't expect to design a perpertuum mobile using >> established physics. If the built device did exhibit perpertual >> motion, then it would be by luck rather than by design. In order to >> build a perpetuum mobile by design new principles of physics are >> required. >> >> Harry >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Giovanni Santostasi >> <gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > The Hydro machine has masses moving in a closed path in a gravitational >> > field so the total energy balance is zero. >> > When you consider the motion of the gas in and out of the chambers, that >> > unavoidably will have some friction and losses, then the system is >> going to >> > have a negative energy balance. >> > >> > This is similar to the last type of "perpetual motion" machines >> discussed in >> > the link in my previous post, but unfortunately they don't work. >> Interesting >> > to think about them though, one can learn nice physics in doing that. >> > >> > Giovanni >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Peter Gluck <peter.gl...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Steven, >> >> what's the difference between those 'viruses' and the MEMES postulated >> by >> >> Richard Dawkins- see "Memetics>"? >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Giovanni Santostasi >> >> <gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Orion, >> >>> Hopefully my comment is not understood as trolling.... >> >>> but as polite criticism. >> >>> >> >>> It is nice to have imagination and to think about things that are >> >>> considered by main stream science as impossible. I wish more >> professional >> >>> scientists could do that (some do and they wait until they come close >> to >> >>> retirement or at least get tenure). >> >>> >> >>> What is also nice, though, is to try to see what could go wrong in a >> >>> particular imagined idea or scheme as a way of understanding better >> and >> >>> making more concrete what one imagines. >> >>> >> >>> It happened many times to me to think about ideas that I believed were >> >>> great to find out almost always that two things were true: >> >>> >> >>> 1) the idea had some fundamental problem with it and I could not see >> it >> >>> (at least at first) >> >>> >> >>> 2) the idea was actually good but somebody already thought about it >> >>> >> >>> It is simply difficult to come up with something completely amazing, >> >>> right and original at the same time. >> >>> But one can learn a lot from this thinking and it is a good way to >> learn >> >>> and think about science and nature that are amazing anyway. >> >>> >> >>> Well, about the buoyancy perpetual motion we have the case that it is >> >>> something unfortunately neither original (in the sense that somebody >> already >> >>> thought about it) or really working (even if due to relatively subtle >> >>> reasons). >> >>> Somewhere non conservative forces are going to make your device stop. >> >>> This why there is not a working model of such devices but often >> simulations >> >>> can be found on the net. >> >>> >> >>> Here one example of a pretty complete discussion about different >> kinds of >> >>> buoyancy perpetual machines and why they don't work: >> >>> >> >>> http://www.hp-gramatke.net/pmm_physics/english/page0550.htm >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Giovanni >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2012 at 9:01 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson >> >>> <orionwo...@charter.net> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Speaking of Regularly Scheduled Programming, here's one from Ski-Fi >> >>>> channel! >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> To my surprise, the troll, Eff Wivakeef, before he was banned, posted >> >>>> something that I personally found fascinating and transformational. >> Well… >> >>>> let me try to explain what I mean by "transformational". >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> <* * * Warning! * * *> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> This has to do with another one of those strange synchronistic >> woo-woo >> >>>> events that occasionally pass through my life. If you don't believe >> in >> >>>> synchronicity or the existence of strange Unidentified Flying >> Woo-Woos >> >>>> (UFW2s) you might as well skip the rest of this post. ;-) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> </* * * Warning! * * *> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I'm referring to the Troll's attempt to both taunt and ridicule the >> Vort >> >>>> Collective by posting a You-Tube link to a bogus free energy device >> >>>> allegedly based on the manipulation of gravity, gradient water >> pressure, and >> >>>> buoyancy. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> See: >> >>>> >> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89SiqG3pI0 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> We see an individual, James Kwok, owner of a company called Hidro, >> >>>> explaining how his technology works with the aid of a fish tank >> filled with >> >>>> water and a flexible tube attached at both ends with inflatable >> bags. One >> >>>> bag has a weight attached to it. Kwok proceeds to give a warm & >> fuzzy spiel >> >>>> with birds chirping away in the background on how gravity affects >> water >> >>>> pressure, and how this pressure buildup in-turn affects the buoyancy >> of the >> >>>> two inflatable bags depending on how deep these bags are positioned >> within a >> >>>> reservoir of water. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Ok, so far, so good. I have a pretty decent understanding of the >> >>>> underlying physics involved pertaining to water pressure and the >> effects >> >>>> buoyancy. Kwok then proceeds to show how he found a way, through >> some clever >> >>>> engineering tricks, of manipulating the effects of buoyancy by >> filling >> >>>> ballast tanks with gas. This causes the ballast tanks to become >> lighter than >> >>>> the surrounding water where they will subsequently rise to the >> surface. >> >>>> Meanwhile other ballast tanks currently on the surface of the water >> will >> >>>> fill with water causing them to become heavier than the surrounding >> water >> >>>> and sink. The end-game to Kwok's fascinating demo is revealed in a >> simple >> >>>> animated computer graphic where he claims an endless free energy >> cycle can >> >>>> be harnessed by connecting these ballast tanks with the aid of what >> looks >> >>>> like a very long bicycle chain. The rotating chain, in turn powers an >> >>>> electric generator. Wallah! Free energy! Brought to you by gravity, >> water >> >>>> pressure, ballast tanks, and a bicycle chain! What could go wrong! >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> What astonished me was not whether Kwok's contraption would work. >> (Not >> >>>> very likely!) The mystery I was confronting was what kind of >> mechanisms >> >>>> might have been involved in bringing Kwok's wacky concept to my >> attention in >> >>>> the first place. How did this Troll's random post, a troll who >> didn't know >> >>>> me, a troll who was attempting to taunt members of the list group I >> >>>> participate in, end up posting something that intimately >> synchronized with >> >>>> something I had been privately mulling about in my head for the past >> week. >> >>>> During occasional idle moments, I had found myself trying to >> visualize how >> >>>> one might be able to set up some kind of a "free energy" cycle that >> could >> >>>> take advantage of gravity/pressure/buoyancy effects. Hey! I know >> it's a >> >>>> crazy idea! I can't help myself! Long ago I came out of the closet >> (at least >> >>>> to myself) and accepted the fact that I enjoy playing around with >> these >> >>>> wacky mental exercises. So far, I haven't gone blind from excessive >> >>>> Imagerybation. My Fool's Imagination seems harmless. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> What this visual exercise brought home to me was a realization that >> what >> >>>> I thought I had I created out of my own mind probably didn't >> originate from >> >>>> me after all. It certainly wasn't a personal creation that had >> originated >> >>>> from the troll's mind as he went about attempting to torment us. Nor >> was it >> >>>> any more a form of inspiration created from the mind of James Kwok >> when >> >>>> years ago he stumbled across the same imaginary "figment" and >> subsequently >> >>>> started diddling with it using his own engineering predilections. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Before someone tactfully asks me whether I might have left my tinfoil >> >>>> hat at home I must state for the record that long ago I came around >> to a >> >>>> suspicion (a belief) that most of us are constantly being barraged >> by these >> >>>> kinds of external imaginative energy patterns. It's happening to us >> >>>> regardless of whether we are aware of how such influences might >> affect our >> >>>> thinking predilections. It is as if these energy patterns are the >> equivalent >> >>>> of psychic viruses that are constantly flowing through the either of >> what >> >>>> Carl Jung called the Collective Unconscious. Under the >> circumstances, I >> >>>> don't think tinfoil would have helped. ;-) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> But take heart. Long ago I suspect our species found practical ways >> in >> >>>> which to protect ourselves from an incessant onslaught of psychic >> viral >> >>>> attacks, "viruses" that might actually be a form of "Instinct" as >> exhibited >> >>>> by animals. Most of us automatically dismiss most of these "viruses" >> as >> >>>> nothing more than a random thought. This is probably a good thing >> because I >> >>>> would imagine that our wetware would get pretty cluttered if we >> didn't have >> >>>> some kind of an automated filtering system set in place. We have >> constructed >> >>>> our very own firewall. How we have configured our personal filters >> >>>> determines what our wetware will allow through into conscious >> awareness. A >> >>>> few, like Kwok get hooked on the "viral" imagery because of the way >> he had >> >>>> configured his personal firewall, but also because he was attracted >> to >> >>>> similar concepts in the first place! Guess I could say something >> similar >> >>>> must have happened to me as well... and apparently to the Troll too, >> in his >> >>>> own mean spirited way. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Once we "capture" one of these viruses, once we become consciously >> >>>> aware, and then intrigued by the imagery associated with them, we >> begin >> >>>> adding our own unique energy signature to the overall patterns. >> Eventually, >> >>>> however, we begin tire of the imaginary. We let go of it, and when >> we do we >> >>>> cease feeding our own unique signature of energy into that portion >> of the >> >>>> Collective Unconscious. We give it back to the Great Gestalt. >> Eventually, >> >>>> others will stumble across the same gestalt. They too, will end up >> adding >> >>>> their own unique signature to the Great Collective. I suspect these >> energy >> >>>> gestalts residing in Collective Unconscious are like constantly >> evolving >> >>>> creatures. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I believe science has recently hypothesized the possibility that >> certain >> >>>> viruses (of the biological kind) might not necessarily be >> detrimental. Some >> >>>> may actually turn out to be beneficial. There certainly has been >> talk about >> >>>> engineering artificial viruses that would perform specific >> biological tasks >> >>>> such as an aid to seeking out and destroying cancer. "Viruses" from >> the >> >>>> Collective Unconscious strike me as behaving in a similar manner. >> They are >> >>>> nothing more than psychic tools. Some tools are bound to be better >> >>>> configured than others. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Some may be intrigued by the idea of a Collective Unconscious >> behaving >> >>>> like a vast repository where inspiration occasionally springs into >> our >> >>>> conscious awareness. I'm obviously not the first person to have >> speculated >> >>>> on such ideas. No doubt, there are many who have chosen to run about >> as >> >>>> naked as they can get... without any protective tinfoil shielding the >> >>>> private parts of their wetware. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Others, on the other hand, may find the idea of a Collective >> >>>> Unconscious, meddling about with their personal imagination, >> disquieting. It >> >>>> messes around too much with a sacred sense of our identity - our >> soul, if >> >>>> you will. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> In the end, it doesn't really matter whether one believes in all this >> >>>> psychic woo-woo stuff, or not. What matters is whether we are >> willing to >> >>>> allow ourselves to occasionally become passive, to float along the >> gentle >> >>>> currents of the present moment for just a tiny spell. Give ourselves >> an >> >>>> opportunity to RECEIVE ideas in whatever form or shape they decide >> to reveal >> >>>> themselves to us as. Of course, what we end up DOING with what pops >> into our >> >>>> head remains a personal predilection of our own doing. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Happy garbage collection! >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> …and now, back to regularly scheduled programming! ;-) >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Steven Vincent Johnson >> >>>> >> >>>> www.OrionWorks.com >> >>>> >> >>>> www.zazzle.com/orionworks >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr. Peter Gluck >> >> Cluj, Romania >> >> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >> >> >> > >> >> >
