On 05/31/2012 10:17 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
To (1), the complaint about the government using the threat force to
extract taxes is fanciful. As has been suggested, you can move to
Somalia or Afghanistan if you prefer. There you will learn that when
the government doesn't have a monopoly on violence, ordinary people
are likely to resort to what is called "self-help," or vigilante
justice, and where that doesn't exist there's simply violence imposed
by the strong upon the weak. I would take government enforcement of
laws over self-help any day. Most people would. When enough people
feel that way they band together and create constitutional
democracies. Then they vote for representatives to form a government,
and the government starts doing things on their behalf that they are
unable to do individually. Since some people are knuckleheads, you
need some form of coercion to keep things from reverting to a state of
nature.
There's a lot to be said here, and I did read the whole post. I don't
like talking about morality in a science forum, but if people were
talking about math, then no one would think twice about it. But morality
is thought to be based on personal preferences, and hence, outside of
the realm of science, but morality is exactly like math in its
construct. We develop this abstract construct called math, based on
logic, because it reflects our interactions with the known, physical,
world. Likewise, when living and working with other people, we have to
have a theory by which we can live and work with other people. We can't
escape morality since we have to live and work with other people. So
like math, we start with axioms. So, if we start with the axiom that
there's nothing fundamentally different between all consenting adults of
average intelligence which would change the way we treat them, then we
can start with the premise that we should all treat everyone in the same
fashion. We should treat everyone equally, and build a moral theory
based on the idea that: 1) we should treat everyone the same; and 2)
that no rule should be made based on any personal preference. The result
of this is the Non-Aggression Principle, which states that no one should
initiate the use of force against anyone else, while allowing the use of
force in defense or retaliation against those who first use aggression.
It is, in every sense, a logical abstract theory, based on an axiom of
moral equality.
So when you tell me that I should move to Somalia, you are dodging the
issue, and expressing the opinion that I seek a society without
government, also ignoring the fact that Somalia is in a non-stable state
of chaos and civil war. When actually, all I am prescribing is a society
which does not violate the non-aggression principle; where there are no
systematic exceptions which allow some people to commit aggression.
The GDP of the US in 2011 was over 10 trillion dollars. If only 25% of
the people paid 10% of their income, voluntarily, to the federal
government, the government would still have over 250 billion dollars a
year to spend. I would certainly pay this for the defense of the country
and so would a good number of everyone else. It's certainly enough to
maintain a very strong defensive force against foreign aggression. It's
not enough, however, to start militaristic ventures into other
countries. There would probably be plenty of money left to venture into
other areas of social interest, as well, if we only maintained a nuclear
deterrent and not a substantial military presence.
Once we conclude that we have to use reason and logic when living with
other people, as we do with the physical world, then the problems we see
in the political world will evaporate. When we stop making exceptions
for government and treat everyone as equals, then we don't have the
exceptions which drive government into every aspect of our lives. We
don't have the wars, the inflation, the taxes, the debt, and the police
state. We have a government which must live within its means and be
accountable to its citizens.
Locally, the issue is even simpler. I write about that here:
http://www.freemanch.com/the-woodlands-a-city-without-government/
For the moral theory, I write about that here:
http://craighaynie.iprx.com/files/5813/3574/2093/A_Simple_Theory_of_Morality.pdf
Now back to your locally scheduled program, already in progress.
Craig
