On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Ben Brockert <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The largest technical challenge would be the buckets. Either you have > to collect the charge from water particles traveling near mach 4 > without slowing them down The whole point of water-mist EHD systems is that you slow down the charge carriers through an electrostatic field to convert kinetic energy to electrical potential. > , or you have to collect the droplets from > said supersonic stream without slowing the gasses down. If you just > stopped the stream entirely the temperature will go back well above > the boiling point of water and you'll be blowing ionized gas out the > exhaust. > You're confusing gas behavior with highly columnated particle behavior. > But fundamentally, I don't expect it will work to create high voltage > much at all because the rocket exhaust is going to be much more > conductive than air. It will easily arc. > You're not taking into account distance. > > Calling your argument for competitive efficiency handwavy would be an > understatement. > Perhaps, but give your trackrecord in the above critique, I'll await other opinions on the lack of value in my argument. > > Ben > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 8:22 AM, James Bowery <[email protected]> wrote: > > The main technical challenges as I see them: > > > > * The air/NG/water compressors > > * The LKT's "buckets" are gonig to have to sustain large transients and > > loads in force and voltage > > * A fixture for the LKT that can hold megavolts without arcing > > * Characterizing and then engineering for start up and shut down > transients > > * Integration of the LKT components with the rocket itself > > > > Are there intermediate steps toward solving these independently? > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:37 AM, Monroe L. King Jr. > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hummmm interesting indeed. > >> > >> Monroe > >> > >> > -------- Original Message -------- > >> > Subject: [AR] Rocket Driven Lord Kelvin's Thunderstorm > >> > From: James Bowery <[email protected]> > >> > Date: Mon, April 08, 2013 10:17 pm > >> > To: vortex-l <[email protected]>, [email protected] > >> > > >> > > >> > Given the below results from the rocket propellant simulator: > >> > > >> > http://rocketworkbench.sourceforge.net/equil.phtml > >> > > >> > We have an air+methane+water fuel mixture rocket expelling droplets of > >> > liquid water travelling at 1305m/s with a Carnot efficiency of about > >> > 70%. > >> > > >> > If you take two such rocket engines and put them in place of the water > >> > droplets of a Lord Kelvin's Thunderstorm, you have would would appear > to > >> > be > >> > an electrohydrodynamic DC power station with the following rather > >> > characteristics: > >> > > >> > * very high voltage > >> > * high power to weight > >> > * reasonably efficient > >> > * burns a fuel that is cheap for at least the next several years > >> > * NOx in sub-ppm as the only pollutant other than CO2 (which is a > green > >> > house gas) > >> > * might even be used as water treatment. > >> > * the only moving parts are the compressors > >> > * very little touble with cooling capacity given the H2O mass flow > rate > >> > * with additional downstream equipment might be tuned to treat water > as > >> > a > >> > side job > >> > > >> > Sorry for the cross-post to vortex-l as well as arocket but this is up > >> > Beatty's (vortex-l's) alley and certainly involves small scale liquid > >> > rocketry. > >> > Results > >> > > >> > Propellant composition > >> > Code Name mol Mass (g) Composition > >> > 976 WATER 512.0000 9223.8235 2H 1O > >> > 578 METHANE 55.0000 882.3353 1C 4H > >> > 15 AIR (DRY AT SEA LEVEL) 1.0000 15479.2332 835N > 224O > >> > 5AR > >> > Density : 2.261 g/cm^3 > >> > 5 different elements > >> > H O C N AR > >> > Total mass: 25585.392031 g > >> > Enthalpy : -5907.12 kJ/kg > >> > > >> > 149 possible gazeous species > >> > 3 possible condensed species > >> > > >> > CHAMBER THROAT EXIT > >> > Pressure (atm) : 100.000 54.524 1.000 > >> > Temperature (K) : 851.960 741.912 273.659 > >> > H (kJ/kg) : -5907.117 -6079.928 -6758.571 > >> > U (kJ/kg) : -6212.081 -6345.499 -6856.528 > >> > G (kJ/kg) : -13075.582 -12322.436 -9061.163 > >> > S (kJ/(kg)(K) : 8.414 8.414 8.414 > >> > M (g/mol) : 23.228 23.228 23.228 > >> > (dLnV/dLnP)t : -1.00000 -1.00000 -1.00000 > >> > (dLnV/dLnT)p : 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 > >> > Cp (kJ/(kg)(K)) : 1.59515 1.54548 1.37312 > >> > Cv (kJ/(kg)(K)) : 1.23719 1.18752 1.01517 > >> > Cp/Cv : 1.28933 1.30143 1.35261 > >> > Gamma : 1.28933 1.30143 1.35261 > >> > Vson (m/s) : 627.05454 587.89672 355.38692 > >> > > >> > Ae/At : 1.00000 9.06046 > >> > A/dotm (m/s/atm) : 8.28502 75.06605 > >> > C* (m/s) : 828.50159 828.50159 > >> > Cf : 0.70959 1.57508 > >> > Ivac (m/s) : 1039.62801 1380.02098 > >> > Isp (m/s) : 587.89672 1304.95492 > >> > Isp/g (s) : 59.94878 133.06837 > >> > > >> > Molar fractions > >> > > >> > Ar 4.5393e-03 4.5393e-03 4.5393e-03 > >> > CO2 4.9932e-02 4.9932e-02 4.9932e-02 > >> > H2O 5.6468e-01 5.6468e-01 5.6468e-01 > >> > NO 2.9860e-07 2.9860e-07 2.9860e-07 > >> > NO2 5.0825e-08 5.0825e-08 5.0825e-08 > >> > N2 3.7903e-01 3.7903e-01 3.7903e-01 > >> > O2 1.8155e-03 1.8155e-03 > >> > 1.8155e-03<hr>_______________________________________________ > >> > [email protected] > >> > http://exrocketry.net/mailman/listinfo/arocket > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > [email protected] > > http://exrocketry.net/mailman/listinfo/arocket > > >
