Sarcasm has no place in science. To me it is just telling a lie and laughing about it. To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... From: dlrober...@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:02:11 -0400
OK, I guess it was not clear to me what you were pointing out. It had the sound of sarcasm...my bad. Dave -----Original Message----- From: DJ Cravens <djcrav...@hotmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 12:33 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... that is why I said: "if your process requires electrical input you must have a high COP..... for a real world device when you have to also make electrical conversion, fight heat losses, power to the controlling units, and such. " You may want to re read my post. But also realize that Ecats are just one of many paths in the area of "CF". D2 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... From: dlrober...@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 12:17:10 -0400 Dennis, please look at the many descriptions that have been written about why the COP must be beyond a certain level to supply itself without having problems. A COP of 2 to 1 could not make enough electricity to supply the drive by any means. Electronic control required electrical energy and that must be available for stable operation of the device. Dave -----Original Message----- From: DJ Cravens <djcrav...@hotmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 11:58 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... must be connected to the mains------bingo- if your process requires electrical input you must have a high COP. The conversion from heat back into electrical power places restrictions on you ability to make it self sustaining. IF you can get heat out at around 300C you theoretically could self sustain at somewhere just over 2:1 but that would require closely matching the conversion device and the rate of heat extraction. When you down in the sub 100C range (where I always seem to end up) for extraction, then you have to be at over 5:1 if you are perfect and more like 10 to 1 for a real world device when you have to also make electrical conversion, fight heat losses, power to the controlling units, and such. Also, you have to have a way to balance heat extraction rates with keeping the unit above its desired working temperature. You just about have to have a variable heat conductive path of some kind. [ a few here might be interested- I am presently trying to make a variable heat path device using a concentric tube around a heat pipe with a ferro fluid between- but then I am a much lower COP ] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... From: dlrober...@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 09:46:26 -0400 Wrong again Cude. No one has ever claimed that an ECAT has run in SSM without connection to the power mains. Read what Rossi has written. His definition of SSM is restricted to a brief period of time during which the device is slowly cooling off but generating internal heat. Controlled cooling has not been proven to work yet and may not work with the present design. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Cude <joshua.c...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:06 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe... On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> wrote: I still think that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not high wattage and fancy instruments and lots of wires and computer programs. That would be nice, but evidently that would probably cause the reactor to melt, or explode, so it is not an option. That's the excuse anyway, but it makes no sense. If controlled cooling were used to regulate the temperature, I see no reason that the necessary temperature could not be maintained without it running away. And in the 2012 reports, Rossi, or Penon claim more than 100 hours of self-sustained running. And if it ever proves to have practical value, it will have to be possible to make it self-sustain, since it will have to be able to make more electrical power than it consumes, or more heat than you can make with the fuel that produced the electricity to begin with.