In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:49:57 +0000: Hi Fran, [snip] >Guys, a few things may be coming together here, first I must admit I was >thinking more like hydrino orbitals not Robin's explanation where the proton >orbits the electron for IRH... this was new to me BUT a good lesson, I went >looking for info on IRH and trying to imagine what Robin meant by a "stuck >electron" to allow this proton to perform orbitals around it.. I found the >below paper that defines IRH as only becoming possible beneath a certain >critical distance to metal surfaces
Have you actually been able to gain access to the full paper, or are you basing this on the abstract? Just from reading the abstract, I don't get the impression that this has anything to do with IRH. >and I thought back to my own posits of relativistic hydrogen atoms where the >nucleus is displaced on the temporal axis allowing the orbital to close >smaller and smaller "behind" the nucleus... what if this "displaced" smaller >orbital does become captured in the metal surface while the well down to the >proton persists? Would this give you both the "stuck" property and force the >proton to twist around in an orbital because the electron becomes fixed?- >The dynamical properties of a Rydberg hydrogen atom between two parallel metal >surfaces* http://iopscience.iop.org/1674-1056/20/3/033401 > >I could see this state persisting for as long as the electron is anchored but >would expect a normal orbit to return once the electron escapes from the metal >surface or the proton break away as an ion. I guess if a pair of these IRH >formed a compound while escaping the metal surfaces that caused this state >they might persist with electrons bound in a covalent knot and the protons >keeping each other from returning to normal but I still wouldn't expect it to >be permanent and would expect it to disassociate easier than a normal molecule. >Fran > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:58 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Bosenova > >In reply to Axil Axil's message of Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:06:20 -0400: >Hi Axil, >[snip] >>So sorry, please excuse me but the surface electrons on the surface of a >>metal micro particle don't orbit. The oscillate in a dipole(s) upon the >>surface of the micro particles n an electron gas. >> >> >>In physics, a plasmon is a quantum of plasma oscillation. The plasmon is a >>quantization of plasma oscillations just as photons and phonons are >>quantizations of electromagnetic and mechanical vibrations, respectively. >>Thus, plasmons are collective oscillations of the free electron gas >>density, for example, at optical frequencies. Plasmons couple with a photon >>(infrared) to create a quasiparticle called a plasma polariton. >> >>Look it up, Wikipedia is seldom wrong. > >All this is fine, but what does it have to do with what I wrote here below? >(BTW I'm no great believer in IRH, I just wrote my opinion of how it might >work, >if it turns out to be correct.) > >> >> >>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Wed, 7 Aug 2013 18:23:01 +0000: >>> Hi Fran, >>> >>> In IRH, the proton orbits the electron. >>> >>> The vastly larger mass of the proton is why the orbit is much smaller. In >>> this >>> state, the proton is essentially in the classical "ground state", so no >>> variation in vacuum density is required. >>> >>> If you take the equation for the radius of the normal H atom, and >>> substitute the >>> mass of the proton for the mass of the electron, you will see what I mean. >>> >>> The energy release upon entering such a state is at least several hundred >>> eV. (I >>> calculate a maximum of 50000 eV). Note however that the state relies upon >>> the >>> electron not being able to move, i.e. it is "stuck in place", and the >>> actual >>> radius of the proton orbit will depend on the degree to which it is >>> "stuck", >>> because the proton actually orbits around the center of mass. The >>> "stuckness" of >>> the electron determines it's apparent mass, and hence the CM radius. >>> (This is the ping pong ball in the corner of the box again. I.e. the >>> electron's >>> real mass doesn't change, but it's apparent mass can be very large, if it's >>> stuck in a rigid lattice. At least that's the only way I can make sense of >>> IRH). >>> >>> BTW the reason that I say it stays shrunk is that it has lost so much >>> energy >>> when formed. In order to expand again it would have to get that energy back >>> again, and unlike you, I don't think energy can be extracted from the ZPE >>> (but I >>> could be proven wrong). >>> >>> New idea (nothing to do with IRH): >>> >>> Perhaps a Hydrinohydride ion (negative) and a proton can orbit one another, >>> analogous to positronium, but with the proton mass substituting for the >>> electron >>> mass? >>> >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
