Sorry Robin.. did not realize it was behind a paywall, I simply opened the pdf at work but here at home got the subscription dialogue.. I think the paragraph re critical distance should qualify as fair use and will fwd to you on Monday. Fran
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 6:16 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Bosenova In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Fri, 9 Aug 2013 18:49:57 +0000: Hi Fran, [snip] >Guys, a few things may be coming together here, first I must admit I >was thinking more like hydrino orbitals not Robin's explanation where >the proton orbits the electron for IRH... this was new to me BUT a good >lesson, I went looking for info on IRH and trying to imagine what >Robin meant by a "stuck electron" to allow this proton to perform >orbitals around it.. I found the below paper that defines IRH as only >becoming possible beneath a certain critical distance to metal surfaces Have you actually been able to gain access to the full paper, or are you basing this on the abstract? Just from reading the abstract, I don't get the impression that this has anything to do with IRH. >and I thought back to my own posits of relativistic hydrogen atoms >where the nucleus is displaced on the temporal axis allowing the >orbital to close smaller and smaller "behind" the nucleus... what if >this "displaced" smaller orbital does become captured in the metal >surface while the well down to the proton persists? Would this give you >both the "stuck" property and force the proton to twist around in an >orbital because the electron becomes fixed?- The dynamical properties >of a Rydberg hydrogen atom between two parallel metal surfaces* >http://iopscience.iop.org/1674-1056/20/3/033401 > >I could see this state persisting for as long as the electron is anchored but would expect a normal orbit to return once the electron escapes from the metal surface or the proton break away as an ion. I guess if a pair of these IRH formed a compound while escaping the metal surfaces that caused this state they might persist with electrons bound in a covalent knot and the protons keeping each other from returning to normal but I still wouldn't expect it to be permanent and would expect it to disassociate easier than a normal molecule. >Fran > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2013 7:58 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Bosenova > >In reply to Axil Axil's message of Thu, 8 Aug 2013 19:06:20 -0400: >Hi Axil, >[snip] >>So sorry, please excuse me but the surface electrons on the surface of >>a metal micro particle don't orbit. The oscillate in a dipole(s) upon >>the surface of the micro particles n an electron gas. >> >> >>In physics, a plasmon is a quantum of plasma oscillation. The plasmon >>is a quantization of plasma oscillations just as photons and phonons >>are quantizations of electromagnetic and mechanical vibrations, respectively. >>Thus, plasmons are collective oscillations of the free electron gas >>density, for example, at optical frequencies. Plasmons couple with a >>photon >>(infrared) to create a quasiparticle called a plasma polariton. >> >>Look it up, Wikipedia is seldom wrong. > >All this is fine, but what does it have to do with what I wrote here below? >(BTW I'm no great believer in IRH, I just wrote my opinion of how it >might work, if it turns out to be correct.) > >> >> >>On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 6:32 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> In reply to Roarty, Francis X's message of Wed, 7 Aug 2013 18:23:01 +0000: >>> Hi Fran, >>> >>> In IRH, the proton orbits the electron. >>> >>> The vastly larger mass of the proton is why the orbit is much >>> smaller. In this state, the proton is essentially in the classical >>> "ground state", so no variation in vacuum density is required. >>> >>> If you take the equation for the radius of the normal H atom, and >>> substitute the mass of the proton for the mass of the electron, you >>> will see what I mean. >>> >>> The energy release upon entering such a state is at least several >>> hundred eV. (I calculate a maximum of 50000 eV). Note however that >>> the state relies upon the electron not being able to move, i.e. it >>> is "stuck in place", and the actual radius of the proton orbit will >>> depend on the degree to which it is "stuck", because the proton >>> actually orbits around the center of mass. The "stuckness" of the >>> electron determines it's apparent mass, and hence the CM radius. >>> (This is the ping pong ball in the corner of the box again. I.e. the >>> electron's real mass doesn't change, but it's apparent mass can be >>> very large, if it's stuck in a rigid lattice. At least that's the >>> only way I can make sense of IRH). >>> >>> BTW the reason that I say it stays shrunk is that it has lost so >>> much energy when formed. In order to expand again it would have to >>> get that energy back again, and unlike you, I don't think energy can >>> be extracted from the ZPE (but I could be proven wrong). >>> >>> New idea (nothing to do with IRH): >>> >>> Perhaps a Hydrinohydride ion (negative) and a proton can orbit one >>> another, analogous to positronium, but with the proton mass >>> substituting for the electron mass? >>> >Regards, > >Robin van Spaandonk > >http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
