The scientific approach, of course, would be two establish two groups, one a control group and the other a treatment group where the "treatment" is the proposed change, in this case the age limit.
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:15 AM, Alain Sepeda <alain.sep...@gmail.com>wrote: > I agree too that most of incentive in Science is status (science in real > life is very like political in a way as my dear MP secretary explained to > me). > > about removing older people from decision, I think it can be evil too. > From decision maybe, but from discussion no. > > I see that older people often, because they can have no huge ambition for > future, because they can have enough protection to feel safe, because they > can have more ego than fear of the future, those fearless people, can play > the rebels... > In the early 20th century , young could play the rebels, they had to, but > I'm afraid modern generation of scientists are so dependent on career and > funding, that they cannot take the risk to think out of the funding box. > They are also often too submitted to fashion, while oldies can remind of a > period when things were different. > > they will be what Norbert Alter called "alien", people who > > Today in many controversies,; I see only oldies, who take , for best and > worst (I don't agree, mostly for best), crazy positions against the > consensus, based on old knowledge, old evidences, of their memory of a > period where feeling and trends were different. > > In the late 19th century, oldies were conservatives in a stable society. > Today oldies are keepers of dead times, of dead culture, of outdated > consensus, washed by waves of fashions and new consensus. > Oldies are rebels, aliens, foreigner of their time, like were the young > before. > Like old heros, they can decide to suicide their career to defend their > micro-ethics, not afraid of anything worse than the planned story... > retirement and death. > > Maybe they are wrong, but sure you should not remove them from the story. > They are what the young were before. > If you look for young rebel, forget in science, go to business. > > However I agree that out of science, oldies often are more defending their > honeypot, surfing on fashion, rather than rebels or defender of old values. > > > > 2013/9/25 Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> > >> James Bowery <jabow...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> There is also opposition from many ordinary people and many stupid >>>> people at places like Wikipedia >>>> >>>> >>> In all of these cases we're dealing with the incentives of social status >>> more than authority structure. >>> >> >> I agree. I would say it is ordinary primate behavior, similar to what you >> see in our cousins the chimpanzees, and in other group hunting predators >> such as wolves. (I am not denigrating this behavior. I have great respect >> for other species.) >> >> >> >>> So how do you identify the Jason(s) most likely to be more concerned >>> with national security than peer pressure? >>> >> >> I wouldn't know. I have never met 'em. I don't even know who they all >> are. I know some people who have met with them, and meet with them every >> year. I get the impression the Jasons are a bunch of washed up old farts >> who are opposed to everything that wasn't discovered before they turned 30, >> which was a long time ago. But I could be wrong. >> >> I know that one or two of them often pull strings to have cold fusion >> funding cancelled. >> >> It is big mistake to give any scientist over 30 a role in allocating >> money or making decisions. The way to make progress is get a large pot of >> money and hand it out to young people, letting them do whatever they please >> with it. Some of them will waste it. A few may steal it. But most will make >> far better use of it than an old scientist could. Young people succeed in >> doing things the older people think are impossible, because the young >> people have not yet learned where the boundary between possible and >> impossible likes. Actually, that boundary is imaginary, like a geographical >> boundary -- a state line, or a property line. No one knows what is possible >> and what isn't. No one can even imagine. >> >> - Jed >> >> >
