> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
> Guido A.J. Stevens wrote:
> > Some thoughts on Kathy's swift response on an earlier statement of
> > mine, took some time to ripen. Long post on technical
> > vs. informational perspectives on 'graceful degradation'.
> >
> > "Gill, Kathy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > I'm curious where you get this generalization -- that 800x600
> > is the rez "most" people use.
> > >
> > > GVU stats don't back it up.
> >
> > Good point.
> >
> > > There are lots of 640x480 monitors out there -- and *if* your stuff
> > > is good enough for folks to want to print offline, they're going to
> > > find truncated right-hand margins at anything wider than 590.
> >
> > That's exactly my point. The point being that the page is deliberately
> > designed to contain all essential information in the 'printable'
> > 'main' 550 pix area. *But* there's some additional goodies available
> > to people surfing at higher rez/screensizes.
>
> I don't buy the "additional goodies" argument at all. I go into many offices
> where people are surfing at 640x480. When they come across a site that has
> to scroll right they:
>
> 1) think there's something wrong with it
> 2) get annoyed by having to scroll right to see the site, then back left to
> see the rest
> 3) request a leave of absence and a bucket
>
> ...well, I must admit that item #3 is rare...
>
At least Guido is putting *supplemental* info over on the RHS -- maybe once you see
it, you can say "no thanks" and get back to "reading" what's visible on your screen.
> > The solution then, is the magic catchall phrase 'gracefully
> > degrading'. Which, to me, means something like "looks fine in MSIE7
> > and makes sense when speech synthesized". The big question, as
> > somebody pointed out, is how to operationalize this noble intent
> <snip>
> > While adhering to HTML4 standards is a very good foundation to start
> > from, it doesn't do the job on its own. We have (1) a major backward
> > compatibilty and cross-compatibility problem and (2) people with
> > wildly varying information needs.
> <snip>
>
argghh. Speech synthesization. I'm with that group who doesn't believe we are headed
to a "star trek like" integration with our computers. Can you IMAGINE being in an
open office enviroment where everything was speech?!? I sit in a "cubed" area with
four computers -- on either side of our area are more mini-offices,usually with 4
computers/office. talk about noise pollution!
and we think handwriting recognition software is a challenge.
I think speech has "it's place" -- but I don't see it as the primary way most people
interact with their computer.
OTOH, coding for accessibility using HTML 4.0 guidelines and the WAI guidelines
*would* move you along this path - as speech output is used by many in the disabled
community.
> > When I'm
> > surfing mobile on a Nokia Communicator, I don't even *want* the same
> > information as when I'm behind my high-rez 20" workstation monitor. On
> > a Nokia or Lynx screen, I want bare-bones essentials. On my
> > workstation, I want a wide-angle high-density overview perspective.
> >
> > Lots of words to come to this question: doesn't graceful degradation
> > *also* require a layered information model? A presentation with core
> > informational elements being distributed to everyone, but additional
> > information layers of context, explanation and diversions being
> > gradually made available for more demanding (high-end high-rez)
> > information users?
>
> This seems to be exactly the issue that I've been seeing addressed in
> articles about Gecko that I've read recently. The mozilla programmers seem
> to be working to address that issue, much in the way you said it. I think
> the concept is to separate content from layout, then allow the rendering to>
> take place in layers, depending on the environment. In other words, design a
> "page" to layout OK on a desktop browser, but do the coding so the same
> "content" can be delivered to other platforms (handhelds, cel phones, etc)
> and still be usable.
>
This means, I think, that all of our "content" will be residing in a database in the
sky. In some ways, it's already possible to separate content from design, in this
sense anyway. With a well-designed database repository, outputing "plain" versus
outputting "fancy" could be a function of templates. Yes? No? Maybe?
Kathy
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