Hi All
I'm sorry, i rarely get personal on these lists but could we please
not vent our frustrations about apple and eof on the wonder people,
because that is exactly the wrong place to siphon off energy. They
need constructive feedback and inspiration. If you doubt this, try
ruby on rails for more than a tutorial or two. Try JSF but it leads,
i am told, to heavy drinking. The ball is out of Apple's hands and
it's being carried in no small part by the people at Wonder. No one
here will do your work for you, that's why YOU get paid for YOUR
work. Wonder is an inspired and idealistic movement to carry what was
once the cream of the DB Abstraction Layer to the next century/
millenia. If you don't appreciate it enough to contribute with at
least a positive mind set, i don't know, take up a job that will make
you happy and don't let off your steam here. It's the wrong venue.
And quite honestly, some apologies are in order.
2cents
Cornelius
On 30.06.2007, at 17:25, Steven Mark McCraw wrote:
Which bits of it would you like them to open up ? and why ?
I would like every bit of it opened up, and the reason is that
Apple moves like a glacier in response to fixing glaring issues
that WebObjects has had in the past. If you adopted Webobjects
prior to 5.2, you know what I'm talking about. The wonder
community is far more responsive to issues, and if it had direct
access to the source, it would be much easier to patch problems.
Why *wouldn't* you want the source?
Just about everything i want to tinker with is already open
source, because the Wonder project either covers it or has
replacements for the closed source bits i have any interest in.
Yes, and if WO had been open sourced, you wouldn't need a separate
framework. You wouldn't need replacements, because the fixes would
already be in WebObjects.
What about EOF ? Do i care it's closed source. Not at all:
- it works perfectly (ok, there's a couple of bugs, but nothing to
cry about)
- it has a wonderful, elegant design, which despite many attempts
has still not been matched by any other java framework (IMHO)
- it's very stable
- it's very scalable
- it is supported and maintained by Apple
- it's free
EOF does not work perfectly. Outside of all the things wonder
fixes for you, I would call it kind of a mess, especially if you
follow the documentation Apple provides (although they have done
better as of late).
I agree it's better than most of it's competitors, but it certainly
has its share of frustrations. That is just my opinion. I am
glad EOF has been kinder to you.
"supported and maintained by Apple" is another matter of opinion.
In my opinion, it is not supported and maintained well. Many of
the important fixes/workarounds/documentation attempts have come
from outside of Apple.
I see EOF as an extension of my database. We use MySQL - a great
open source database. Have I ever tinkered with the source code of
MySQL ? Of course not - i haven't even downloaded it, let alone
looked at it. It works well and that enables me to build great
apps. And that's all i care about.
I also use MySQL, and I agree with you. It is great. I have never
had the problems with MySQL that I have had with EOF. With great
source code, you never need to tinker, and I never have. But,
could it be that MySQL is great because the source code is
available, and people who understand it and are more inclined to
tinker have been able to fix problems they have had in the past?
It's hard to know for sure, but there have been many, many
frustrating instances for me in the past where having the code to
EOF would have helped me tremendously, if not to fix a problem in
EOF, at least to figure out what was going on.
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