On Sep 11, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Ken Foust wrote: > Some more thoughts even if they are total BS > > I wonder how many people still use D2W ? > I would say fold project wonder into WO > bring back WOB in HTML 5 > Even if you make WOB a stand alone Apple Dev App leaving WO open-source > If D2W is outdated - dump it
I guess that depends on your definition of outdated. If you are looking for a stateless server/stateful client web app, D2W isn't for you. Fat clients might be better handled by D2JC or some unreleased chocolate framework. Whatever the case, I would hardly call the D2W style of programming outdated. Clean separation of Model/View/Controller logic is always the goal, whether you're doing it client or server side. > Get on the tutorials - it is the way forward > You could even pick real apps to to a tutorial and all the gurus could join > it. > This may be far fetched but just think - If all you guys got together and say > did a tutorial based on a WO-ebay > you could even launch it and share in the profits. Or just document BugTracker (^_^) > get rid of the fragmentation > one click install and be ready to rock We had one of those a while back, but the maintainer lost his appetite for it. I agree though. If we want to attract new users, we don't need another 30 minute tutorial on how to properly install this stuff. We need a one click installer that installs WO 5.4 and/or 5.3, WOLips, WO docs, Subclipse, Jadclipse, and Wonder source directly into a workspace, already divided into working sets (frameworks, examples, apps, tests, etc). A one click installer for deployment would be great too. > How many "New" companies are moving to WO > How are you going to market If all your friends were jumping off a cliff because it was "cool" would you? (^_~)d Ramsey > > > On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:01 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> (Pascal Robert) >> 2. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> (Chuck Hill) >> 3. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> (Pascal Robert) >> 4. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> (Jeremy Matthews) >> 5. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> (Andr? Mitra) >> 6. WOCommunity 2010 surveys (Pascal Robert) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:49:24 -0400 >> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> To: Michael Gargano <[email protected]> >> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Yes, the wiki do need a good cleanup. About the videos, that's one of my >> options for my book/big tutorial... >> >>> Looking at it as someone just starting to get very serious about WO.... >>> The community needs videos that describe everything from the ground level >>> up. Not just here's how to install WO and "Hello World" with every other >>> video being fairly advanced. To much is assumed for beginners. Also, the >>> wiki needs an enema. As I learn more I hope I can help clean it (a lot of >>> the stuff in there is outdated). Maybe starting from scratch in a new wiki >>> or blog would be best. Other than that the community has been extremely >>> helpful overall! >>> >>> >>> -Mike >>> >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>> ideas about that... >>>> >>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>> >>>>> ms >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>> get more >>>>>> difficult. >>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their >>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> my two cents >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 >>>>>>>> tool that does everything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there >>>>>>>> are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and >>>>>>>> there are lots of different reasons in each >> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >> that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mgargano%40me.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/54e65229/attachment.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:51:45 -0700 >> From: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> To: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. In >> the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >> >> >> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >> >>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>> ideas about that... >>> >>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>> >>>> ms >>>> >>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>> >>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>> >>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as it >>>>> may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has poor >>>>> documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of your >>>>> own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even get >>>>> more >>>>> difficult. >>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>> >>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their >>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>> >>>>> my two cents >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 >>>>>>> tool that does everything. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots >>>>>>> of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't >>>>>>> make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the >>>>>>> goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to >>>>>>> admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are >>>>>>> parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are >>>>>>> amazing. I also don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable >>>>>>> any more than I think being a Rails app makes you inherently >>>>>>> unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are >>>>>>> relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL >>>>>>> databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set >>>>>>> of problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has >>>>>>> public web properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, >>>>>>> sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of >>>>>>> different reasons in each >> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >> that way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ms >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>> >>> This email sent to [email protected] >> >> -- >> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >> >> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: smime.p7s >> Type: application/pkcs7-signature >> Size: 3927 bytes >> Desc: not available >> Url : >> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/83a08295/smime.bin >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:52:38 -0400 >> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> To: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> >> Le 2010-09-10 à 19:51, Chuck Hill a écrit : >> >>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. >>> In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >> >> We just have to wait two years :-) >> >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>> ideas about that... >>>> >>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>> >>>>> ms >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>> get more >>>>>> difficult. >>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their >>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> my two cents >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 >>>>>>>> tool that does everything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there >>>>>>>> are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and >>>>>>>> there are lots of different reasons in each >> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >> that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>> >>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:56:45 -0400 >> From: Jeremy Matthews <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Since I'm in and out of the WO world, I can say that it was hardest for me >> to get updated documentation, sample code, examples, podcasts, etc. >> >> News and information appears sporadic and sparse...and not just on WO, but >> with the rest of the stuff WO devs use (Wonder, Eclipse config, etc). >> >> The folks on this list are fantastic, but I don't view them as my personal >> resource for every single WO question out there, and the ones I had (or >> have) tend to be the same ones that those before me had as well. The >> community is small...GREAT, but small. So when I have a tough question >> (which happens), it seems like the same few folks are answering. It makes me >> leery for the future - if Chuck and Kieran get hit by a bus, I would be >> going to the nearest bar and running a very large tab! >> >> Thanks, >> jeremy >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:22 -0400 >> From: Andr? Mitra <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >> To: Chuck Hill <[email protected]> >> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> Yes, we need another book from you! >> >> On 2010-09-10, at 7:51 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: >> >>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. >>> In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do... >>> >>> >>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote: >>> >>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of >>>> ideas about that... >>>> >>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep >>>>> making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around. >>>>> >>>>> ms >>>>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From the outside looking in: >>>>>> >>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as >>>>>> it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future. >>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would >>>>>> suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the >>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that >>>>>> you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all >>>>>> the open-source programs. >>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has >>>>>> poor documentation and terrible tutorials. >>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is. >>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of >>>>>> your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even >>>>>> get more >>>>>> difficult. >>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle. >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a >>>>>> brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their >>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea. >>>>>> >>>>>> my two cents >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> except Mathematica :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 >>>>>>>> tool that does everything. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Amiel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on >>>>>>>> lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology >>>>>>>> doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? >>>>>>>> what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also >>>>>>>> the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every >>>>>>>> problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there >>>>>>>> are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO >>>>>>>> inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app >>>>>>>> makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs >>>>>>>> Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just >>>>>>>> silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring >>>>>>>> value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address >>>>>>>> well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, >>>>>>>> php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and >>>>>>>> there are lots of different reasons in each >> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex >> system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far >> as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll >> that way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ms >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is >>>>>>>>> develop with JSF instead of WebObjects. >>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/bosyotech%40gmail.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1 >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/fousto%40me.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >>> -- >>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development >>> >>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall >>> knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. >>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net >>> >>> This email sent to [email protected] >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:43 -0400 >> From: Pascal Robert <[email protected]> >> Subject: WOCommunity 2010 surveys >> To: Apple WO-Dev <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Ok guys, >> >> While I'm listening to all WOWODC 2010 recordings, I'm preparing the 2010 >> surveys. I have put the surveys in the wiki so people can add suggestions >> and comments before I open the survey. >> >> Organization Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/lYF9 >> >> Individual Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/l4F9 >> >> Will also prepare a survey specific to WOWODC later. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/50dd57a2/attachment.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Webobjects-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev >> >> End of Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 555 >> ********************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rgurley%40mac.com > > This email sent to [email protected] _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [email protected]
