Johan and Ken,

Love to help with D2W components where possible. I have several of my own now 
that ought to be added.

David


On 2012-03-29, at 10:16 AM, ISHIMOTO Ken wrote:

> It is not only the Problem that we won't share, but
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> For Comitter:
> 
> Create Framework, changes everything in other Frameworks that have to , 
> commit, done, Hero Mode.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> For Non-Comitter:
> 
> Create Framework, changes everything that has to be changed test it. Use it. 
> Would like to share
> 
> make first Patch to other Frameworks : wait , wait, wait, Fine
> 
> make next Patch : wait....
> 
> make next Patch but somebody says we don't need that....
> 
> Hmm now the Commit can't be done.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> That's the big difference, and I really think it wan't get better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also Johan,
> 
> if we find a way to work together on your D2W Components I would love to. I 
> also have about 30 Custom Components.
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
> On 2012/03/29, at 6:57, Johan Henselmans wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 2012-03-27 à 19:30, Mike Schrag a écrit :
>>> 
>>>>>>> "I think we should use the funds to pay people to fix issues that the 
>>>>>>> majority of users are having. The issues will be voted by the community 
>>>>>>> and the most voted issues will become the highest priorities."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That is not how Wonder was created and now how I expect that it will 
>>>>>> continue.  If you have a problem, learn how to fix it.  Then put it in 
>>>>>> Wonder.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the past, we had Apple sponsorship and most of the big additions to 
>>>>> Wonder between 2007 and 2010 came from Apple… We don't have that 
>>>>> sponsorship anymore, and personally I don't think we will survive if we 
>>>>> don't pay people for major stuff. I don't think we will survive anyway, 
>>>>> but that's another story…
>>>> Apple funded a VERY small percentage of the contributions to Wonder. 
>>>> Almost all of the contributions I made came from mDimension donating their 
>>>> time, bandwidth, and hardware for the good of the community. Frankly, if 
>>>> Apple hadn't funded the things they did, I would have done them anyway, 
>>>> because I just enjoyed making things.
>>>> 
>>>> This approach of paying for fixes seems like you're just going to end up 
>>>> with a collection of bounty hunters instead of a community. On top of 
>>>> that, there's no way you're going to be able to afford to pay the market 
>>>> cost for this work. mDimension easily donated a couple hundred thousand 
>>>> dollars of time if you applied their real hourly rate to the work. So on 
>>>> top of encouraging people to only give if they get paid, they're going to 
>>>> be paid crap, so why would anyone even bother?
>>>> 
>>>> I really don't think things are stagnant because of the lack of money. 
>>>> They're stagnant because the remaining people in the community don't care 
>>>> enough to contribute. I don't buy any of the "I don't know how to do X" or 
>>>> "I don't have time to do X." You have to want it. I didn't know how to 
>>>> write nearly any of what was in WOLips before I started working on WOLips, 
>>>> and likewise with Wonder. I learned WebObjects working on Wonder. I'm 
>>>> would wager that everyone who worked on Wonder was in the same category. 
>>>> Contribution is also positive reinforcement. The coolest times in Wonder 
>>>> for me were always when one person contributing got someone else energized 
>>>> to contribute and amazing things were made.
>>>> 
>>>> The real question is: Who is currently NOT contributing because they're 
>>>> just waiting for a payday to do so? If you're perfectly happy enjoying the 
>>>> fruits of the community while not giving back to the community, look in 
>>>> the mirror for the reason it's dying. Either give a shit, or don't be sad 
>>>> that it dies.
>>> 
>>> I think reasons don't contribute are:
>>> 
>>> 1) Some just don't care and are leachers. Yes, people you can blame me to 
>>> saying that. But anyway, any community are like that, no community have 
>>> everyone contributing, it's just plain impossible.
>>> 
>>> 2) People are afraid of contributing. That's one of the reasons of why I 
>>> added the "integration" branch in Wonder, and doing a "Contributing to the 
>>> community" talk at WOWODC.
>>> 
>>> 3) People don't have time. That's the answer I got from many WO experts. 
>>> And I can't do anything about that.
>>> 
>>> So I really don't know how we can improve the situation…
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> There are two extra reasons that people do not contribute: the scale of the 
>> project is immense. It is really intimidating to have a look at the project 
>> and see what is available. This is not a place where people beginning to 
>> learn a framework would be happy with. 
>> 
>> Which leads me to another reason people do not contribute: people get stuck 
>> in a problem and there is no infrastructure to work together properly. 
>> 
>> I have started to build several things I would have liked to contribute to 
>> Wonder (some localized date-time D2W component and a print as pdf/excel D2W 
>> component) that i am sure with the help of some people would be fixed in 
>> half a day. Problem is that from where I am working, the nearest 
>> approachable WO-developer would be located in Germany, a few hundred miles 
>> away. 
>> 
>> I think an  IRC channel, that once was setup, but never practically used, or 
>> some other 'live' channel that would be available at a specific time would 
>> get me a lot more productive in contributing stuff. 
>> 
>> On the other hand, I am a Casual WebObjects Developer, I spend a few 
>> hours/days a month tinkering with WebObjects projects, and sometime (like 
>> now) actually building some new stuff. That might also lead to my pitiful 
>> contributing situation. Sniff. 
>> 
>> Anyway, I think it might be a nice idea to have a place where one can find 
>> requests to improve Wonder, so that if there is interest, people can pool 
>> together to get something fixed or build. I think working side to side from 
>> experienced and less experienced people might lead to more contributions. 
>> 
>> For instance:
>> I would like to have/use/build a localized time/date component, 
>> a GoogleMaps/OpenStreetMap component 
>> and a proper introduction in how to use OpenId version 2 with Wonder. 
>> 
>> If anybody is interested in working with me (some experience, bot not into 
>> the deepest bowls of the frameworks), please let me know. 
>> 
>> Something like that. 
>> 
>> (Did I just start something?)
>> 
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>> 
>> Vriendelijke Groeten,
>> 
>> Johan Henselmans
>> [email protected]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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