James, Could you give more details about the project you're looking at doing with one or the other?
Benoit > On May 26, 2014, at 6:54, James Cicenia <[email protected]> wrote: > > How do compare against Sencha? > > I need to make a decision in the next 30 days and was all set on Sencha until > your post. > > Thanks > James > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On May 25, 2014, at 6:15 PM, Benoit Marchant <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Michael, >> >> We don't offer it yet. We need to add the ability to enter an application in >> a certain state, but in a way that works not just with URLs. There are >> circumstances, like a bookmarked HTML5 app on the home screen of a mobile >> device, or an HTML5 application in a native shell like PhoneGap, where URL >> is not available to save a state and bring it back, in these cases for >> example, local storage would be more appropriate. >> >> URLs are obviously very important for bookmarking and sharing, especially on >> desktop, and we'll support that as well. Could you give me the context where >> you need it? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Benoit >> >> >> >> >> >>> On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 5:39 AM, Michael Kondratov >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I can't seem to find any information on URL router in Montage. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On May 19, 2014, at 3:05, Benoit Marchant <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Aaron, >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Aaron Rosenzweig <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Benoit, >>>>> >>>>> Congratulations on your efforts and for pushing forward. >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Do you have familiarity with Enyo / Ares? As someone who already uses >>>>> those products and buys into the idea that the “Web” can be your “OS"… >>>>> what would be the reason for me to switch to Montage / Studio? >>>>> >>>>> At the face of it, the two frameworks / IDE environments seem identical >>>>> in features and purpose. >>>> >>>> I have not seen recent versions of Ares, so it's hard for me to comment on >>>> where it is now. From a high level, Enyo, Angular, EmberJS and MontageJS >>>> have similarities, all these frameworks are designed to help developing >>>> single page applications. But look closer and there are some significant >>>> differences. Take templates for example, Angular and Ember use string >>>> based template syntax that are used inside some markup or >>>> programmatically, my understanding is that Enyo doesn't have templates but >>>> construct all UI controls in a classic, imperative way. Montage has >>>> component-oriented templates, inspired from WebObject designs but going >>>> further. Each componen'ts template is a full, valid, HTML5 document that >>>> any web designer is comfortable with. These templates have on the side a >>>> declaration/serialization of Montage objects used in that template, and >>>> just like Interface Builder, can be controller type as well as UI related >>>> like Components. Then the JavaScript code of the component is where the >>>> MVC role happens, event handling, much like what WOComponents do. >>>> >>>> Binding is another example. Bindings in most frameworks are meant to be >>>> used with the UI, in MontageJS, it's a clean API on top of a clean >>>> observing API, similar to the one from Apple. Angular execute bindings at >>>> the end of the event, changing the order of execution compared to doing >>>> things manually and also creates some challenges in term of performance. >>>> It looks like Enyo asks that you specialize an Enyo kind to benefit from >>>> bindings, with MontageJS bindings work on any JavaScript objects. >>>> MontageJS has the only bindings with logical expressions >>>> (http://documentup.com/montagejs/frb/, https://github.com/montagejs/frb ). >>>> >>>> Deferred drawing has been in MontageJS since the beginning, it looks like >>>> it will come in some form in Ember, and MontageJS is the only framework >>>> offering a unified component approach across the DOM and WebGL. >>>> >>>> Frameworks are very important, but native SDKs like the ones from Apple >>>> and Microsoft, as well as Flash, offer an authoring experience that >>>> simplify and accelerate the development. Enyo and MontageJS are the only 2 >>>> open source frameworks with an authoring experience. But I believe Montage >>>> Studio is the only one in the cloud, working directly with GitHub and >>>> offering the ability to see in real time the changes you make to your >>>> project applied instantly to instances of the app running on devices. This >>>> is a significant innovation with a major impact on productivity. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I really like the idea of a rich javascript app building framework that >>>>> automatically generates the HTML… it abstracts enough that you can focus >>>>> on writing an app while forgetting that it is HTML in the browser at the >>>>> end. Using a rich IDE online is also a very pleasing experience when it >>>>> feels much like Interface Builder. >>>> >>>> Yes, though while MontageJS help you think as a developer without >>>> manipulating the DOM directly, we emphasize the use of HTML and CSS for >>>> presentation and MontageJS templates are the cleanest design in term of >>>> facilitating the collaboration of web designers and developers. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is a very different approach from something like JQuery-Mobile. For >>>>> the average web developer, they feel like they are coming up to speed >>>>> faster with an HTML driven approach but in the end - their app won’t be >>>>> able to deal with complexity and will become brittle. That’s why I prefer >>>>> something like what Montage appears to be. >>>> >>>> That's right, but again, while MontageJS simplifies building complex apps, >>>> the way MontageJS uses HTML and CSS encourages the reuse of many people's >>>> existing skill set. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is so nice to write your app “once” and then run on the Desktop and >>>>> then almost any mobile device using PhoneGap. I really see no reason to >>>>> target any mobile platform directly unless it is a game. Even then it’d >>>>> have to be one with intense action and stellar graphics because pure JS >>>>> games are generally quite nice. >>>> Yes, applications requiring to push the hardware to its max should be made >>>> native, hybrid applications solve the problem of access to native API as >>>> needed, especially now that the JavaScript bridge is available since iOS7, >>>> it's always been possible on Android. There are many, many applications >>>> that can be made with HTML5 with a solution like Montage Studio. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> I’ve drunk the cool aid… in terms of the “concept.” Now, if you could, >>>>> please tell me what differentiates you from the veteran in this space? >>>>> What can you offer above Enyo / Ares? Can you paint a picture of the type >>>>> of developer that would be better served by Montage / Studio? >>>> >>>> Montage Studio, thanks to the component oriented design and HTML5 >>>> templates, simplify how web designers and developers work together, as >>>> well as enabling large teams to deliver complex software. The other aspect >>>> is performance where MontageJS shine with it's approach to minimize DOM >>>> trashing and garbage collection as well as its deferred drawing pattern, >>>> especially on Mobile devices. >>>> >>>> Hope that answer your questions! >>>> >>>> Benoit >>>> CEO & Co-Founder >>>> >>>> Montage Studio >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> AARON ROSENZWEIG / Chat 'n Bike >>>>> e: [email protected] t: (301) 956-2319 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2014, at 3:57 AM, Benoit Marchant <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Fellow WebObjects developers, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm really proud to announce that Montage Studio, the company behind >>>>>> MontageJS is now out in the open, more at http://montagestudio.com. For >>>>>> the past 18 months, the team has been building, with MontageJS, an >>>>>> interactive authoring environment to take the creation of MontageJS >>>>>> applications to a whole new level. >>>>>> >>>>>> The technological path toward Montage Studio originated at Apple where I >>>>>> worked from 1999 to 2010 on bringing the ease-of-use of Mac OS X / iOS >>>>>> user interfaces to the Web. On this journey, I created a first framework >>>>>> and worked with other talented engineers such as Pierre Frisch, Mike >>>>>> Czepiel and François Frisch to build modern, intuitive web applications >>>>>> for the iTunes Store, Apple Retail and apple.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> [One accidental send later ;-) ] >>>>>> In the summer of 2010, I left Apple for Motorola Mobility to lead as >>>>>> Director of Engineering the creation of a Mobile HTML5 platform, a well >>>>>> funded project that was sponsored by the CEO. I was quickly followed by >>>>>> the group of Apple engineers that would later become the core of the >>>>>> Montage Studio team. Leveraging our shared experience at Apple and with >>>>>> new talents added to the team, we applied some of the key engineering >>>>>> designs of Cocoa and WebObjects to HTML5 and created MontageJS, a modern >>>>>> HTML5 framework that simplifies the development of expressive, >>>>>> cross-screen applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> In the summer of 2012, after the acquisition of Motorola by Google, the >>>>>> new leadership allowed us to release MontageJS as open source under a >>>>>> BSD license. I co-founded Montage Studio with Pierre Frisch, quickly >>>>>> joined by the core team from Motorola. We're VC funded, notably by Avie >>>>>> Tevanian, the former VP Engineering at NeXT and former Apple CTO. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> With the interactive authoring features of Montage Studio, in beta, web >>>>>> designers and developers work together in this cloud-based environment >>>>>> to craft powerful, future-proof applications that seamlessly blend 2D >>>>>> and 3D content, exceed user expectations, and drive cross-screen >>>>>> engagement. Montage Studio is directly connected with GitHub. You'll >>>>>> find some concepts from Interface Builder applied to components, with >>>>>> Functional Reactive Bindings, event handling, the ability to build 3D >>>>>> components, reuse components, some powerful and configurable components >>>>>> like the Flow, some improved composition concepts compared to >>>>>> WebObjects, and the ability to see in real-time, in your app running >>>>>> on-devices, the changes you're making to that app in Montage Studio. >>>>>> Montage Studio is free to use for open source projects and will be >>>>>> available as a subscription for closed source projects, just like >>>>>> GitHub. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm incredibly proud of what our team has achieved and excited about the >>>>>> potential for developers, especially for you, as you should find it >>>>>> really familiar and easy to learn! So join the beta here at >>>>>> http://montagestudio.com/reveal/ and we look forward to hearing from >>>>>> you! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Benoit >>>>>> >>>>>> CEO & Co-Founder >>>>>> >>>>>> Montage Studio >>>>>> >>>>>> http://montagestudio.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Twitter: montagejs >>>>>> >>>>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/benoitmarchant >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Benoit Marchant <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Fellow WebObjects developers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm really proud to announce that Montage Studio, the company behind >>>>>>> MontageJS is now out in the open, more at http://montagestudio.com. For >>>>>>> the past 18 months, the team has been building, with MontageJS, an >>>>>>> interactive authoring environment to take the creation of MontageJS >>>>>>> applications to a whole new level. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The technological path toward Montage Studio originated at Apple where >>>>>>> I worked from 1999 to 2010 on bringing the ease-of-use of Mac OS X / >>>>>>> iOS user interfaces to the Web. On this journey, I created a first >>>>>>> framework and worked with other talented engineers such as Pierre >>>>>>> Frisch, Mike Czepiel and François Frisch to build modern, intuitive web >>>>>>> applications for the iTunes Store, Apple Retail and apple.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/aaron%40chatnbike.com >>>>>> >>>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/michael%40aspireauctions.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james%40jimijon.com >> >> This email sent to [email protected]
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