Rachel - My first message was my way of saying "cool it". I know that you know there are few on the list that enjoy a good debate the way I do, so I'm not going to take your comments on that personally. I'm also not going to beat a dead horse so let's move on to the issue of "certification". Separating product from process, if I understand the assertion being made for certification, it is that:
1. Certification summarizes for the tester the results of the business scenarios included in the test. 2. Certification allows an aggregate report of capabilities, thereby protecting PHI. 3. Certification assumes a less than 100% compliant file is to be expected and so the pass rate should be identified and clients should be certified if even one transaction proves to be compliant. But I don't understand a few things: 1. In the example given earlier, the provider was able to produce HIPAA compliant primary claims but not secondary claims. Shouldn't the secondary claims have failed the test? 2. 89% of consultations failed certification. Shouldn't those have failed the test? 3. Is it OK to be compliant with some of the transactions you send, or are CE's required under the law to be fully compliant? 4. If in fact an entity with a less than 1% pass rate can announce to the World that it has met "certification" requirements through a third party testing and certification authority, what does that mean for the industry? 5. Doesn't certification imply some independent analysis and verification of validity? If so, how do we know that the certifying entity used real data? What's to stop a vendor, provider or payer from building rather than producing a compliant transaction and certifying it? Hope this sets an example of vendor free jargon and assists in the discussion on this topic. Marcallee -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:43 PM To: WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List Subject: RE: VALIDATION or Certification Kepa's message was not a discussion of the quality of its products/services. Rather, it seemed to me to be a very detailed description of Claredi's capabilities and ultimately, of one supplier's capabilities pertinent to analysis and debate of the concepts of testing and certification. If I was a competitor I would certainly go to school on his message. If other vendors then wish to describe in similar detail what their capabilities are, the industry will then become a much more informed consumer...and industry feedback will only serve to further improve the vendor's products/services for the good of all. Personally, I don't think vendors will overly abuse this forum to purely pitch their products/services, since in doing so would most likely have the opposite effect of what they wish to have happen....driving potential buyers away from them rather than bringing buyers to them. I don't believe that by allowing freer debate, argument, discussion and disclosure of capabilities will open any floodgates of vendor propaganda, but rather actually be a force for vendors to engage with the industry in open discussion to gain agreement on critical concepts and methods with those who would actually use their solutions. This type of openness is prevalent and encouraged in many other national and global discussion lists where standards are actually developed, resulting in much better standards and solutions. BTW, what do you mean when you say " . . .it seems the real topic here is to what extent does analysis need to occur?" Analysis of what? It seems to me that analysis is exactly what is starting to take place: analysis of what is testing (truly), what is certification (truly), what should it be (actually) and most importantly, a forum and venue for the end users (providers and health plans) to have a voice into these topics. Rather than being afraid of a bit of commercialism, perhaps we should embrace it. People on this list are perfectly capable of telling a vendor to "cool it" if they become too self-serving. I think we should have a little bit of faith in the discernment and judgment of people here to weed out the snake merchants from the others. Rachel Foerster -----Original Message----- From: Marcallee Jackson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:34 AM To: WEDI SNIP Testing Subworkgroup List Subject: RE: VALIDATION or Certification I don't think this is an appropriate use of the list serve. Though I understand Kepa's message was in response To Rama's, this kind of email is too close to a sales pitch. It gives other vendors no choice but to respond in kind. Now, if we want the list to turn into a forum for vendors to discuss the quality of their products and benefits of its features in comparison to others, we can make that choice, but unless we're ready to open the door to everyone with a testing product to plug, I suggest this discussion change direction. Whether you call it testing or certification, it seems the real topic here is to what extent does analysis need to occur? That's a valid discussion but product comparisons do not belong here. --- The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/. These listservs should not be used for commercial marketing purposes or discussion of specific vendor products and services. They also are not intended to be used as a forum for personal disagreements or unprofessional communication at any time. You are currently subscribed to wedi-testing as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe from this list, go to the Subscribe/Unsubscribe form at http://subscribe.wedi.org or send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need to unsubscribe but your current email address is not the same as the address subscribed to the list, please use the Subscribe/Unsubscribe form at http://subscribe.wedi.org --- The WEDI SNIP listserv to which you are subscribed is not moderated. The discussions on this listserv therefore represent the views of the individual participants, and do not necessarily represent the views of the WEDI Board of Directors nor WEDI SNIP. If you wish to receive an official opinion, post your question to the WEDI SNIP Issues Database at http://snip.wedi.org/tracking/. These listservs should not be used for commercial marketing purposes or discussion of specific vendor products and services. They also are not intended to be used as a forum for personal disagreements or unprofessional communication at any time. You are currently subscribed to wedi-testing as: [email protected] To unsubscribe from this list, go to the Subscribe/Unsubscribe form at http://subscribe.wedi.org or send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need to unsubscribe but your current email address is not the same as the address subscribed to the list, please use the Subscribe/Unsubscribe form at http://subscribe.wedi.org
