Looks like it's being distributed, because apticron just said there is new python packages available
python3.13 3.13.5-2+deb13u4 etc On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 at 10:41, 'John Kline' via weewx-user < [email protected]> wrote: > It will definitely restart and will run for a while. How long is not > clear. Perhaps a few days, Perhaps a week or longer. Perhaps you won’t > see it at all. > > BTW, they were chasing another bug ( > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1142056): > > > Some pipeline jobs failed, because python3.13 interpreter segfaults. This is > > a different issue, and it looks more like a bug in python3.13, not in > > sphinx. > > Hi. This is probably the python3.13 bug: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1141977 > > and at this point I really wonder if there was a bug in sphinx at all > (in which case we would not need an upload for trixie at all). > > That is when they bumped our bug from important to serious. It is now > marked as fixed, but I’m still waiting to hear when they will push it. > > On Jul 17, 2026, at 4:25 PM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: > > If the system does restart what will happen to weewx? Will it still run > for a while and then just stop? > > On Friday, 17 July 2026 at 08:52:29 UTC+10 Greg from Oz wrote: > >> Thanks John. I have read all of that on the link you gave me but it makes >> no sense to me at all as I am no programmer. I just use the software. I >> guess I will wait for the fix to appear. >> >> On Friday, 17 July 2026 at 03:20:24 UTC+10 Vince Skahan wrote: >> >>> I know John strongly disagrees but this is another reason why I do not >>> do ‘any’ package updates on my LAN-only weewx system. I get it working and >>> leave it alone. Granted my risk profile permits this for me. I permit ‘no’ >>> incoming traffic to my LAN that the weewx system is on, >>> >>> Running in docker is another way to avoid these kinds of ‘sand shifted >>> under your feet’ problems, making it easier to revert to a previously >>> stable setup. >>> >>> (but wow quite the elaborate investigation figuring out all the gory >>> internals things for this case) >>> >>> On Thursday, July 16, 2026 at 8:13:32 AM UTC-7 John Kline wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Greg, >>>> >>>> I pinged the maintainer (Stefano) on the bug. Stefano already has a >>>> test build of 3.13.5-2+deb13u4. See his reply here: >>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1141977 for a link >>>> to it (if you want to install it). I have it running on 7 machines and >>>> will do the rest after the first weewx gc run in about 2 and 1/2 hours. >>>> >>>> John >>>> >>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 6:48 PM, John Kline <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, you can from a Debian snapshot, but I think if I listed >>>> instructions on how to do that, I dig myself quite a hole in having to >>>> support the process; and, I suspect, some will never undo putting the >>>> packages on hold, thus, never get a python upgrade again. >>>> >>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 4:05 PM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> apt-cache policy python3.13 >>>> python3.13: >>>> Installed: 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 >>>> Candidate: 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 >>>> Version table: >>>> *** 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 500 >>>> 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian trixie/main amd64 Packages >>>> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status >>>> >>>> Looks like I cannot downgrade...I will just have to now restart the >>>> weewx. >>>> I do have weewx set up in monit and if it does crash in theory it >>>> should restart again. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, 15 July 2026 at 23:05:03 UTC+10 John Kline wrote: >>>> >>>>> I believe the maintainers have what they need to push a fix. I’m >>>>> hoping that will happen in a week or two. >>>>> >>>>> >> At least if it doesn't start I will know what to do >>>>> >>>>> It will start just fine. The issue is, each time weewx requests >>>>> garbage collection (which, by default, weewx does every 3 hours), there is >>>>> a small chance of a segment violation soon after. As such, the symptom >>>>> will be that weewx stops running for no obvious reason (and nothing in the >>>>> log after a garbage collection message). >>>>> >>>>> It is hard to say how often this might happen for a single instance of >>>>> weewx running. The frequency may depend on what extensions you are >>>>> running >>>>> (and how many of them). It is conceivable that some won’t see the issue >>>>> at >>>>> all before the fix arrives. >>>>> >>>>> I was seeing the issue too often (as I run quite a few weewx >>>>> instances); so I resorted to downgrading the python packages and put them >>>>> on hold while waiting for the update. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 2:53 AM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So when does the new fix arrive? >>>>> I upgraded the python 2 days ago and weewx has been running for 4 >>>>> days....I better not restart weewx. >>>>> At least if it doesn't start I will know what to do...Thanks for the >>>>> heads up. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, 14 July 2026 at 08:17:42 UTC+10 Tom Keffer wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, John, for your detailed report. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 8:09 AM 'John Kline' via weewx-user < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you run WeeWX on Debian 13 (trixie) and your system installed the >>>>>>> python3.13 update from the 13.6 point release (version >>>>>>> 3.13.5-2+deb13u3, >>>>>>> rolling out via unattended-upgrades since July 11), be aware that it >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> crash weewxd with a segmentation fault. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What it looks like >>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>> weewxd dies with SIGSEGV -- no Python traceback in the log, the >>>>>>> process >>>>>>> just exits. systemd shows "Main process exited, code=dumped, >>>>>>> status=11/SEGV". If you look closely at the timing, the crash comes >>>>>>> milliseconds after WeeWX's periodic garbage collection pass (the >>>>>>> "Garbage collected N objects" INFO line, every 3 hours by default). >>>>>>> weewxd is unusually good at tripping this bug precisely because it >>>>>>> calls >>>>>>> gc.collect() on that schedule while its other threads keep working. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I run seven WeeWX machines (Raspberry Pi 5, all on trixie). Four >>>>>>> crashes >>>>>>> in the ~48 hours after the update reached them; the crash takes down >>>>>>> maybe >>>>>>> 1 in 25 GC passes, so it looks random and can hit anywhere from >>>>>>> hours to >>>>>>> days after a restart. The crashing thread differs every time (sqlite >>>>>>> reads, report generation, image generation), so don't chase whatever >>>>>>> happens to be in your traceback if you have faulthandler enabled -- >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> the victim, not the cause. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The cause >>>>>>> --------- >>>>>>> It is not WeeWX and not any extension. Debian's deb13u3 update >>>>>>> backported >>>>>>> a garbage-collector fix into Python 3.13.5 but omitted a second >>>>>>> upstream >>>>>>> commit that the fix depends on, so a GC pass can free memory that is >>>>>>> still >>>>>>> in use. It's tracked as Debian bug #1141977, the missing commit has >>>>>>> been >>>>>>> identified by bisection, and the maintainer is engaged, so I'd >>>>>>> expect a >>>>>>> fixed package (deb13u4) reasonably soon: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://bugs.debian.org/1141977 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am I affected? >>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>> dpkg -l python3.13 | grep deb13u3 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Two things must both be true: the deb13u3 package is installed AND >>>>>>> weewxd >>>>>>> was (re)started after it was installed. A weewxd that has been >>>>>>> running >>>>>>> since before the upgrade still uses the old library and is safe >>>>>>> until its >>>>>>> next restart. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What to do >>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>> 1. If your weewxd predates the upgrade, simply don't restart it >>>>>>> until the >>>>>>> fixed package arrives. >>>>>>> 2. Otherwise, make crashes self-healing while you wait. A systemd >>>>>>> drop-in (systemctl edit weewx) with: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [Service] >>>>>>> Restart=on-failure >>>>>>> RestartSec=10 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> turns each crash into ~15 seconds of downtime. I also recommend >>>>>>> Environment=PYTHONFAULTHANDLER=1 there -- it logs a full thread >>>>>>> dump >>>>>>> on any future native crash, which is invaluable for problems like >>>>>>> this one. >>>>>>> 3. Raising gc_interval in weewx.conf reduces exposure but does not >>>>>>> eliminate it (Python's automatic collections use the same broken >>>>>>> code path), so I wouldn't rely on it. >>>>>>> 4. When the fixed python3.13 package arrives, remember that a running >>>>>>> weewxd keeps the old library until it is restarted -- do a >>>>>>> "systemctl restart weewx" after the upgrade to actually get off >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> broken version. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Downgrading to deb13u2 also works but re-opens the security fixes >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> update carried; with the auto-restart in place I don't think it's >>>>>>> worth >>>>>>> it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> John >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/92B83A5B-A968-4531-8DF2-223C1E9D1ED7%40johnkline.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/92B83A5B-A968-4531-8DF2-223C1E9D1ED7%40johnkline.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/ae5a994b-b4f0-4c6b-aa50-91baedd28a34n%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/ae5a994b-b4f0-4c6b-aa50-91baedd28a34n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/a03d6aaa-a55f-4120-83bd-d808c3eb80cfn%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/a03d6aaa-a55f-4120-83bd-d808c3eb80cfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "weewx-user" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/8a1f1ef1-6eaa-45e1-9f5a-4a4ce6b77e02n%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/8a1f1ef1-6eaa-45e1-9f5a-4a4ce6b77e02n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "weewx-user" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/87A5BB68-408C-47AD-A6AE-22D3C895153C%40johnkline.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/87A5BB68-408C-47AD-A6AE-22D3C895153C%40johnkline.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "weewx-user" group. 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