Yes I am seeing it and installing it now... Thanks On Saturday, 18 July 2026 at 19:54:43 UTC+10 John Smith wrote:
> Looks like it's being distributed, because apticron just said there is new > python packages available > > python3.13 3.13.5-2+deb13u4 > etc > > On Sat, 18 Jul 2026 at 10:41, 'John Kline' via weewx-user < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> It will definitely restart and will run for a while. How long is not >> clear. Perhaps a few days, Perhaps a week or longer. Perhaps you won’t >> see it at all. >> >> BTW, they were chasing another bug ( >> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1142056): >> >> > Some pipeline jobs failed, because python3.13 interpreter segfaults. This >> > is >> > a different issue, and it looks more like a bug in python3.13, not in >> > sphinx. >> >> Hi. This is probably the python3.13 bug: >> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1141977 >> >> and at this point I really wonder if there was a bug in sphinx at all >> (in which case we would not need an upload for trixie at all). >> >> That is when they bumped our bug from important to serious. It is now >> marked as fixed, but I’m still waiting to hear when they will push it. >> >> On Jul 17, 2026, at 4:25 PM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> If the system does restart what will happen to weewx? Will it still run >> for a while and then just stop? >> >> On Friday, 17 July 2026 at 08:52:29 UTC+10 Greg from Oz wrote: >> >>> Thanks John. I have read all of that on the link you gave me but it >>> makes no sense to me at all as I am no programmer. I just use the software. >>> I guess I will wait for the fix to appear. >>> >>> On Friday, 17 July 2026 at 03:20:24 UTC+10 Vince Skahan wrote: >>> >>>> I know John strongly disagrees but this is another reason why I do not >>>> do ‘any’ package updates on my LAN-only weewx system. I get it working and >>>> leave it alone. Granted my risk profile permits this for me. I permit >>>> ‘no’ >>>> incoming traffic to my LAN that the weewx system is on, >>>> >>>> Running in docker is another way to avoid these kinds of ‘sand shifted >>>> under your feet’ problems, making it easier to revert to a previously >>>> stable setup. >>>> >>>> (but wow quite the elaborate investigation figuring out all the gory >>>> internals things for this case) >>>> >>>> On Thursday, July 16, 2026 at 8:13:32 AM UTC-7 John Kline wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Greg, >>>>> >>>>> I pinged the maintainer (Stefano) on the bug. Stefano already has a >>>>> test build of 3.13.5-2+deb13u4. See his reply here: >>>>> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1141977 for a link >>>>> to it (if you want to install it). I have it running on 7 machines and >>>>> will do the rest after the first weewx gc run in about 2 and 1/2 hours. >>>>> >>>>> John >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 6:48 PM, John Kline <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well, you can from a Debian snapshot, but I think if I listed >>>>> instructions on how to do that, I dig myself quite a hole in having to >>>>> support the process; and, I suspect, some will never undo putting the >>>>> packages on hold, thus, never get a python upgrade again. >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 4:05 PM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> apt-cache policy python3.13 >>>>> python3.13: >>>>> Installed: 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 >>>>> Candidate: 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 >>>>> Version table: >>>>> *** 3.13.5-2+deb13u3 500 >>>>> 500 http://deb.debian.org/debian trixie/main amd64 Packages >>>>> 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status >>>>> >>>>> Looks like I cannot downgrade...I will just have to now restart the >>>>> weewx. >>>>> I do have weewx set up in monit and if it does crash in theory it >>>>> should restart again. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, 15 July 2026 at 23:05:03 UTC+10 John Kline wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I believe the maintainers have what they need to push a fix. I’m >>>>>> hoping that will happen in a week or two. >>>>>> >>>>>> >> At least if it doesn't start I will know what to do >>>>>> >>>>>> It will start just fine. The issue is, each time weewx requests >>>>>> garbage collection (which, by default, weewx does every 3 hours), there >>>>>> is >>>>>> a small chance of a segment violation soon after. As such, the symptom >>>>>> will be that weewx stops running for no obvious reason (and nothing in >>>>>> the >>>>>> log after a garbage collection message). >>>>>> >>>>>> It is hard to say how often this might happen for a single instance >>>>>> of weewx running. The frequency may depend on what extensions you are >>>>>> running (and how many of them). It is conceivable that some won’t see >>>>>> the >>>>>> issue at all before the fix arrives. >>>>>> >>>>>> I was seeing the issue too often (as I run quite a few weewx >>>>>> instances); so I resorted to downgrading the python packages and put >>>>>> them >>>>>> on hold while waiting for the update. >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 15, 2026, at 2:53 AM, Greg from Oz <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So when does the new fix arrive? >>>>>> I upgraded the python 2 days ago and weewx has been running for 4 >>>>>> days....I better not restart weewx. >>>>>> At least if it doesn't start I will know what to do...Thanks for the >>>>>> heads up. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, 14 July 2026 at 08:17:42 UTC+10 Tom Keffer wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, John, for your detailed report. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2026 at 8:09 AM 'John Kline' via weewx-user < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you run WeeWX on Debian 13 (trixie) and your system installed the >>>>>>>> python3.13 update from the 13.6 point release (version >>>>>>>> 3.13.5-2+deb13u3, >>>>>>>> rolling out via unattended-upgrades since July 11), be aware that >>>>>>>> it can >>>>>>>> crash weewxd with a segmentation fault. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What it looks like >>>>>>>> ------------------ >>>>>>>> weewxd dies with SIGSEGV -- no Python traceback in the log, the >>>>>>>> process >>>>>>>> just exits. systemd shows "Main process exited, code=dumped, >>>>>>>> status=11/SEGV". If you look closely at the timing, the crash comes >>>>>>>> milliseconds after WeeWX's periodic garbage collection pass (the >>>>>>>> "Garbage collected N objects" INFO line, every 3 hours by default). >>>>>>>> weewxd is unusually good at tripping this bug precisely because it >>>>>>>> calls >>>>>>>> gc.collect() on that schedule while its other threads keep working. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I run seven WeeWX machines (Raspberry Pi 5, all on trixie). Four >>>>>>>> crashes >>>>>>>> in the ~48 hours after the update reached them; the crash takes >>>>>>>> down maybe >>>>>>>> 1 in 25 GC passes, so it looks random and can hit anywhere from >>>>>>>> hours to >>>>>>>> days after a restart. The crashing thread differs every time >>>>>>>> (sqlite >>>>>>>> reads, report generation, image generation), so don't chase whatever >>>>>>>> happens to be in your traceback if you have faulthandler enabled -- >>>>>>>> it's >>>>>>>> the victim, not the cause. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The cause >>>>>>>> --------- >>>>>>>> It is not WeeWX and not any extension. Debian's deb13u3 update >>>>>>>> backported >>>>>>>> a garbage-collector fix into Python 3.13.5 but omitted a second >>>>>>>> upstream >>>>>>>> commit that the fix depends on, so a GC pass can free memory that >>>>>>>> is still >>>>>>>> in use. It's tracked as Debian bug #1141977, the missing commit >>>>>>>> has been >>>>>>>> identified by bisection, and the maintainer is engaged, so I'd >>>>>>>> expect a >>>>>>>> fixed package (deb13u4) reasonably soon: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://bugs.debian.org/1141977 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am I affected? >>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>> dpkg -l python3.13 | grep deb13u3 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Two things must both be true: the deb13u3 package is installed AND >>>>>>>> weewxd >>>>>>>> was (re)started after it was installed. A weewxd that has been >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> since before the upgrade still uses the old library and is safe >>>>>>>> until its >>>>>>>> next restart. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What to do >>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>> 1. If your weewxd predates the upgrade, simply don't restart it >>>>>>>> until the >>>>>>>> fixed package arrives. >>>>>>>> 2. Otherwise, make crashes self-healing while you wait. A systemd >>>>>>>> drop-in (systemctl edit weewx) with: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [Service] >>>>>>>> Restart=on-failure >>>>>>>> RestartSec=10 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> turns each crash into ~15 seconds of downtime. I also recommend >>>>>>>> Environment=PYTHONFAULTHANDLER=1 there -- it logs a full thread >>>>>>>> dump >>>>>>>> on any future native crash, which is invaluable for problems like >>>>>>>> this one. >>>>>>>> 3. Raising gc_interval in weewx.conf reduces exposure but does not >>>>>>>> eliminate it (Python's automatic collections use the same broken >>>>>>>> code path), so I wouldn't rely on it. >>>>>>>> 4. When the fixed python3.13 package arrives, remember that a >>>>>>>> running >>>>>>>> weewxd keeps the old library until it is restarted -- do a >>>>>>>> "systemctl restart weewx" after the upgrade to actually get off >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> broken version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Downgrading to deb13u2 also works but re-opens the security fixes >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> update carried; with the auto-restart in place I don't think it's >>>>>>>> worth >>>>>>>> it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/92B83A5B-A968-4531-8DF2-223C1E9D1ED7%40johnkline.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/92B83A5B-A968-4531-8DF2-223C1E9D1ED7%40johnkline.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/ae5a994b-b4f0-4c6b-aa50-91baedd28a34n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/ae5a994b-b4f0-4c6b-aa50-91baedd28a34n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "weewx-user" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/a03d6aaa-a55f-4120-83bd-d808c3eb80cfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>> >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/a03d6aaa-a55f-4120-83bd-d808c3eb80cfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "weewx-user" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/8a1f1ef1-6eaa-45e1-9f5a-4a4ce6b77e02n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/8a1f1ef1-6eaa-45e1-9f5a-4a4ce6b77e02n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "weewx-user" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/87A5BB68-408C-47AD-A6AE-22D3C895153C%40johnkline.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/87A5BB68-408C-47AD-A6AE-22D3C895153C%40johnkline.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "weewx-user" group. 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