Hey all, This is a known issue with the WUP product line. The problem lies within the way that dependancies work in WUP and how the programmers for this product line changed the fundamental way they operate from WUG when they created WUP, not taking into consideration how a real customer like yourself would really use their latest product line (sorry IPSwitch, but I have to tell it like it is since you have not released any new service packs to fix this fundamental issue yet, despite saying it's on the list of fixes you are planning on releasing, even though it was first identified back when you first released WUP2005 and have yet to do so!).
<Onto My Soap Box> Explanation of what is happening: If you are monitoring a service on a device like a router (1st device) and another device like a server (2nd device), is set to depend on the router (1st device) which is a standard dependancies set up, if another device like a switch or another server (consider it Device#3) that is attached to the same router (1st device), and it is rebooted, taken off-line, or for what ever reason, loses it's link to the router (1st Device), or the router (1st device) drops a pool to one of it's services due to traffic congestion, latency, or what ever, the way WUP was programmed is that because a service (Port in this case) went down, the methodology programmed by design into WUP, follows that the entire router is down, which is a false assumption since you can still see and talk to the router and the 1st server. Now here is where the thinking of the programmers returns to the right track, but in the process of it, cause the problem you are seeing- Because the router (1st device), is considered "DOWN" because one of it's services are down, then every other device connected to it is also considered "DOWN", because the way dependancies work is that if you take out the route to the other devices, then in theory, they should not be accessible and as a result be considered down as well. The programmers followed that line of thinking correctly, however they failed to take into account that just because a port on a router, switch, etc. is down, that the device itself is not really down, just one of it's services... Under WUG, this would turn the icon background into a Magenta Stop Sign, but not consider the device down, and therefore it would continue checking all devices dependent on it to determine what is really down. Under WUP, the programmers of turn this situation thru an implied assumption (and you know what that buys you!) into a complete "DOWN/OUTAGE" scenario... Thus the reason you will see everything attached to a common device like a switch or router or a server with multiple interfaces on it as "DOWN" when it's marked as "DOWN"... And to get an insite into their line of thinking when they first released WUP, check out the Users Guide for WUP (P.23), and I quote: "WhatsUp Professional is not a troubleshooting tool. It will tell you when your network goes up or down, but will not tell you what made your network go down. For that, you will need to inspect the afflicted resource and its respective documentation." All I can say is - BAD IPSwitch, BAD! It is for this is the sole reason I have not yet upgraded my WUG v8.03 system to WUP2k5 nor even looked at WUP2k6 (was told in an e-mail by an IPSwitch Tech Rep many moons ago that they had not yet fixed this in the WUP product line, but it was on the design change board for a future service pack release which has not been forth-coming yet). In short, I don't have time to be chasing down what I would consider false alerts and mis-leading indications when I need to get something critical back up, and the new features in the WUP product line are not yet sufficient enough to entice me into upgrading and removing all of the dependancies I spent so much time setting up to get away from this one issue (there are some really nice new features that all WUG users have been wanting for a long time that are now found within the WUP product line, but to buy a product with one of it's major features "broken" to get them, is not my idea of a well thought-out upgrade plan, especially when you use that feature extensively and successfully in the old product line... <Off My Soap Box> Hey IPSwitch, any word yet on when that next service Pack with this fix in it will be released??? We're coming up on our maintenance renewal time, and it's becoming increasingly difficult to justify to upper management why we are paying for maintenance on a dead product line and can't upgrade because you haven't fixed a known issue that we really use in your product. ------------------------------------------------------------ Bryan Harrell, SPII Network Infrastructure - Tallahassee Fla. Dept of Revenue (850)-921-0700 SunCom 291-0700 ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 03/14/2006 3:19:12 PM >>> I will check them out. But every time this happens there is one thing that is down. Therefore it is not totally a false alarm. We have never seen all these alerts without something really being down. Thanks, Grant Griffith Web Application Developer Enhanced Telecommunications Corp. (812)932-1000 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Wood Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 3:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts Grant, >> The WUP system is on the same subnet, but in a different location, another building about 10 minutes away. Check your logs. This sounds like a WUP network connection issue. All of the monitored systems appear to go down at once? Probably a connectivity issue. HTH -Terry. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grant Griffith Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:57 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts We do use some dependencies, but I have not looked into detail at the logs. As far as actions, we are mostly using Policies to send out the alerts. The WUP system is on the same subnet, but in a different location, another building about 10 minutes away. >From the sounds of it from Jeff's posts it is a WMI issue of some type. Not sure when a fix is supposed to be released though. Just surprised I have not heard much on this list if it is a real issue for others as well. I know personally we have setup a Servers Alive system that we can rely on to give us good info. But we are spending allot of money on this WUP system and would rather be able to rely on it. Thanks, Grant Griffith Web Application Developer Enhanced Telecommunications Corp. (812)932-1000 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Wood Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts Grant, Are you currently using dependencies? Have you looked at your logs to see why the actions are firing? Are you using individual Actions or Action Policies? What is the location of the devices in relation to your WUP system? (I.E. same subnet, different subnet, different physical location, etc...) -Terry. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grant Griffith Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:21 PM To: McCord, Jeff Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts We currently have it set to alert via email after 2 minutes and then cell phones after 5 minutes. But the real issues is that if something really is down, it alerts everyone saying everything is down! Therefore it really is telling us something is down, but by telling us everything is down, everyone gets called in and it is really only the one thing that needs fixed! This is a huge issue on weekends or in the middle of the night! We are only monitoring around 20 servers right now and probably around an average of 5 services on each server. But we are not a huge company either. Still those 100 alerts are sent out when only a couple need to be. Thanks, Grant Griffith Web Application Developer Enhanced Telecommunications Corp. (812)932-1000 -----Original Message----- From: McCord, Jeff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 2:03 PM To: Grant Griffith Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts I was told by support that it is WMI issue. While working on a hotfix to increase the polling interval from 60 to 90 seconds. We use the action policy of down after 5 minutes and it reduced the alerts 100%. We have about 300 servers on the map and 5-25 service checks and all the performance monitors enabled. Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Grant Griffith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:58 PM To: McCord, Jeff Cc: [email protected] Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts Yes, WUP 2006 using the MSDE database. Thanks, Grant Griffith Web Application Developer Enhanced Telecommunications Corp. (812)932-1000 -----Original Message----- From: McCord, Jeff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:55 PM To: Grant Griffith Subject: RE: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts Are you using WUP 2006 with a SQL DB? Jeff -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grant Griffith Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 1:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [WhatsUp Forum] Issues with Alerts Hey All, I know this has been discussed some in the past, but we are having a real headache with alerts. It seems like if one thing fails almost everything else ends up failing also and we get tons of alerts sent out to our email and cell phones. This makes it very difficult to know for sure what is really down without getting into the network and searching. Has anyone found out why this is happening and how to stop it? Thanks, Grant Griffith Web Application Developer Enhanced Telecommunications Corp. 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