It's sad indeed, as it seems that best practices are seldomly followed and
poor coding is the way.
> some functionality ordinarily provided by JavaScript that now can be done
by HTML5, e.g. the details tag and progress tag
Actually <progress> is "native" only in its attribute definition and
default rendering. It still requires JS in order to access its @value in
write mode.
On the other hand, I suppose that complete implementation of <details> is
delayed by the fact that it's defined in terms of shadow DOM, and no real
DOM adjusting is expected for it. Not every browser is ready for this
further level of interface, probably.

2015-03-28 3:45 GMT+01:00 Michael A. Peters <>:

> On 03/27/2015 06:51 PM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
>> I've been reading through the discussion thread, all of which seems to
>> jump immediately into the weeds of specific details of the proposal.
>> I'm amazed that nobody has yet commented on the implicit premise, which
>> I read as:
>> - JavaScript is a processing pig
>> - with the addition of a few, well-defined constructs to HTML, with
>> support from browsers, we could do a lot of what we want (or what people
>> are doing) - without the overhead imposed by JavaScript
>> To me, this seems like a very good thing.  It seems like:
>> - It's getting harder and harder to do simple things.  Too many
>> JavaScript frameworks and libraries.  Too much complexity. Authoring
>> should not require extensive programming skills. (Whatever happened to
>> the read/write web?).
>> - JavaScript seems to encourage poor programming style, or at least
>> resource-intensive programming.  It seems like 2/3 of the web pages I
>> visit either freeze up, or just take incredibly long to load. Granted,
>> that a lot of this is this stems from all the little click monitoring
>> apps, and widgets, and who knows what else people put on their pages -
>> and waiting for those various sites to respond - but it's the
>> proliferation of more and more JavaScript that enables this.
> In HTML5 some functionality ordinarily provided by JavaScript that now can
> be done by HTML5, e.g. the details tag and progress tag, is still not
> universally supported by modern browsers requiring JavaScript fallback.
> I don't know why it takes the browsers so long to implement, but it does.
> The problem with JavaScript is that fewer and fewer web devs care. Rather
> than picking a framework (like jQuery) and sticking with it, they copypasta
> JS they find around the web (often in violation of the license) and add
> whatever framework that snippet depends upon.
> Few people care about passing their JS through tools like JSLint, and many
> pages still have dozens of external JS references as well as numerous
> inline scripts.
> They just don't care. And that is hard to fix with standards because they
> don't care.

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