On 3/8/07, Eelco Hillenius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Our priorities should now be:
> - GRADUATE! : get 1.3-incubating-beta1 released and vetted by the ipmc
Why is graduation suddenly the biggest priority now? For me finishing
Wicket in action is a much larger priority to be honest, and getting
rid of two difficult to maintain branches would be a bigger priority
as well.
For me personally WIA is important as well, but we won't be shipping a
(final) release while inside the incubator. To get *any* release,
including either 1.3 or 2.0 (if not voted down) we need to leave the
incubator. This will be the best for the book as well, we need to
increase downloads to increase sales remember? Graduate -> release
And for the project I think graduating is very important. Focussing on
that, while discussing a roadmap in the background, without rushing
it, is what I think is best for the project.
> - discuss slowly the future of trunk and the roadmap for 1.3 without
> powerplays, finger pointing and such. Blame throwing will not help
> trunk, nor get us graduated.
I'm sorry, but it looked to me some blame throwing was in place to get
the gravity of the discussion across. IF we decide to ditch 2.0, it's
not going to be a free ride. We would have something to fix, and yes
FAST to not alienate the users working on that.
No, we need to make the case clear and really be sure we don't want to
continue with the constructor change. Too much has been invested into
that project to decide on a whim that we discontinue it. Therefore
discuss it with respect to eachother and the codebase. Ensure our
users are included into the discussion. Ensure we don't leave out
users because they enjoy a skiing trip.
I stress again: this can't be decided before the weekend. It shouldn't.
Like I said earlier, these things go hand in hand. You can't just say,
we're probably gonna ditch 2.0 without providing an alternative for
those people working on it. Don't forget *we* have been encouraging
people to use 2.0 for their long running projects, so arguments like
'that's what you got working with beta software' just won't do imo.
We can decide on the future of 2.0 without deciding what we will do
with the features inside. That actually comes after the decision to
discontinue trunk. We really need to separate these discussions.
Otherwise both get diluted.
> Until then, no things that we could regret should go into 1.3,
> including the model refactor.
Well this is something I don't get: why would we regret it? We won't.
We will, if that causes a lot of trouble for people already building
on 1.3. We haven't decided even that trunk is going to be
discontinued. Therefore we don't need the model refactor in 1.3.
Also the change is controversial, at least with Igor and that is for
me reason enough to regret putting it in (right) now.
The models got much better, the upgrade possibility is as far as I
know complete and in most cases as easy as removing that parameter.
No question on the technical merit of the model change, I just don't
think we should decide *now* to include it already. The vote is to
include *NOW*, and that I don't want. I might even not want it in 1.3
final. But that is something I want to discuss after we decide what to
do with trunk, because then it is clear that we need to actually
provide a short migration path.
I want a release first to give people enough stability to do the model
change when they are ready for it. I *don't* want the model change in
another branch (after giving it a good thought) as that other branch
won't happen as soon as it should. Just won't; we have 2.5 years of
experience with the framework to prove that.
We also have a team that is different for the last half year than the
2 years before that. Different people, different circumstances.
I also think that for people currently on trunk, having 1.4 or 1.5
with generics support will be sooner avaiable than continue trunk
development at its current speed. If we decide to only do (for
example) the model change and generics, I expect us to keep to it. But
the generics in themselves are controversial and may need some extra
development to make them really rock.
So again, I stress: slow down this discussion, make sure we get our
heads clear and get a plan together. Not this frenzy of roadmaps,
votes and other stuff to make a hot headed discussion. First get
1.3-incubating through the ipmc, the rest can be discussed calmly with
respect to each others positions.
Martijn
--
Learn Wicket at ApacheCon Europe: http://apachecon.com
Join the wicket community at irc.freenode.net: ##wicket
Wicket 1.2.5 will keep your server alive. Download Wicket now!
http://wicketframework.org
