so, no separation

There is, but not stricktly to the MVC pattern. There is no Java
framework that I know of that adhers to that original pattern anyway.
Certainly not the frameworks that claim to be 'MVC' frameworks.

Wicket comes closest to Swing. The components combine controller +
view - though Wicket seperates a few of these things with e.g.
converters and markup, and the model is a seperate thing. But I think
it is more useful to look at the actual seperation and where you need
it, than trying to fold discussion into what probably is the most
widely misused pattern in software engineering today ;)

about the controllers. i thought something like: go over all components, 
collect the controllers, filter the duplicates and then call each controller's 
validate(), convert() and updateModel(). if several components share the same 
controller, then it will collect the raw data from all of them, combine it, and 
set the combined value in the model

It sounds interesting. If someone wants to create a poc for this... I
like to discuss with actual code ;)

Eelco


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