Hey folks!

I'm not running any experiments with VE right now or I would have announced
it on the village pump.  However, the VE team is doing a staged deploy of
VE to new accounts at the moment -- slowly ramping up deployments from 5%
to 100%.  That looks a lot like an experiment because its similar to the
strategy we used to bucket users during my experiments.

Thanks to J-Mo for pointing out my travels yesterday!  I'm traveling again
through the rest of the week for OpenSym, so I may go silent again for a
few days.

-Aaron

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Kerry Raymond <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Thanks, Nick! I will pass on the news!
>
>
>
> Kerry
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Nick Wilson
> (Quiddity)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 18 August 2015 8:47 AM
> *To:* Research into Wikimedia content and communities <
> [email protected]>
> *Subject:* Re: [Wiki-research-l] Visual Editor experiment might have a
> problem ...
>
>
>
> Hi Kerry,
>
> IIUC, the original bug was https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T109113 ("Can't
> successfully complete a second CAPTCHA in VisualEditor's save dialog")
> which started last Thursday, and was fixed this morning (and the fix should
> now already be deployed to the production wikis). It was only an issue if
> the first CAPTCHA attempt failed (but I know how common that can be!).
> Sorry it affected your training session. :(
>
> I see that Whatamidoing already replied to your post at WP:VEF
>
>
> Quiddity
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Sam Katz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> No, you don't need CAPTCHA. You can use Honeypot. I think that would fix
> it.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Jonathan Morgan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> No, I'm not aware of any ongoing CAPTCHA work. There was a long thread on
> wikitech-l starting last December ("Our CAPTCHA is very unfriendly") that
> resulted in some Phabricator tasks and a wikipage. But I don't know of any
> active development plans.
>
>
>
> By the way: Aaron's in transition (of the timezone variety) right now, so
> it may be a day or so before he's able to respond to this thread.
>
>
>
> - J
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I thought that someone was already working on CAPTCHA improvents, but I
> can't remember who, and I haven't heard anything recently which makes me
> wonder if this was de-prioritized.
>
> J-mo, do you happen to know the status of the CAPTCHA work is, and who, if
> anyone, is active on that project?
>
> Pine
>
> On Aug 16, 2015 10:41 PM, "WereSpielChequers" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Hi Kerry,
>
>
>
> there is an experiment going on that randomly opts half if new users into
> V/E and leaves half using the classic editor. That should account for why
> one of your newbies had been opted in but not the other.
>
>
>
> Captcha when adding citations is a longstanding problem, we need Captcha
> on account creation to keep the spam bots at bay, but somehow it also
> applies to newbies adding external links as cites, so we have a software
> feature that doesn't effect the vandals but instead targets the best of our
> newbies. My suspicion is that if we could work out when that was introduced
> and then compare it to subsequent recruitment and retention we would find
> that this was one of the most damaging mistakes we've made.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
> On 17 Aug 2015, at 04:56, Kerry Raymond <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I ran my first training session using the Visual Editor this morning and
> hit what appeared to be a show-shopping bug. It appeared that the two new
> users (thankfully I had only 2) could not create a citation. They found
> themselves in an infinite loop of Save Page with Capcha when they tried to
> create a citation.
>
>
>
> By the end of the session, I managed to refine the bug to a combination of
> “new user”, “new article” (although created by me, not the new users), and
> citations involving a live URL, duly reported at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#New_users_unable_to_create_citation_with_a_live_external_link_in_it
>
>
>
> Ironically it first happened on their newly created User Pages where we
> were practising our new Wikipedia skills because tackling “real articles”.
> Then on the “real articles” I had created earlier for them to use (a
> training approach that has the benefit of not unleashing a horde of angry
> watchlisters when they make some silly mistake, which occurs if you let new
> people make their early edits on “popular articles”). (Spot the pattern,
> both were new articles!).
>
>
>
> Now if this had happened to a new user sitting at home, they would have
> been stymied. Because I was there to hold their hands in a training
> setting, I found a way around the problem by logging them in as me and we
> continued the training session on that basis (but not an option to the user
> sitting at home frustratingly typing in Capcha responses until they got
> frustrated and walked away).
>
>
>
> So, Aaron, it may be that your research on the impact of the VE was
> impacted by this bug. I imagine that users affected would have eventually
> aborted the edit as they were unable to save, unless by chance they were
> able to realise that the problem was caused by their citation and either
> removed the citation and just saved the text changes. It’s hard to say what
> the likelihood of a new user being affected is, as the problem seemed to
> relate to the age of the article (I am autopatrolled so I don’t think the
> new articles would have any “might be dodgy” status flags on them, but I am
> not familiar with how that side of things works).
>
>
>
> Also, is this experiment (or one similar) currently running? It’s just
> that when we went into the Preferences of the two new user accounts to
> enable the VE, one of them already had it enabled (yet I had seen both new
> user accounts created in front of me a couple of minutes earlier), so there
> was no possibility that this was anything other than a default setting for
> one of the two users. I thought enabling the VE was normally strictly
> opt-in?
>
>
>
> Kerry
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Jonathan T. Morgan
>
> Senior Design Researcher
>
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> User:Jmorgan (WMF) <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jmorgan_(WMF)>
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Nick Wilson (Quiddity)
> Community Liaison
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
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