Just thinking out loud.. are we looking for actual race/ethnicity/etc data, or is it rather that we're looking for whether someone belongs to an under represented group in their specific situation? If it is the latter, there may be ways to phrase the question without asking for actual demographics.
Stuart; do you have any indication for how large a portion that group is? I am aware of public pages being potentially disguised as such, but wasn't familiar with stories about this happening in a survey context (although it does not sound implausible). Best, Lodewijk On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 11:39 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> wrote: > Another point not touched on by other commenters is that even if ideal > race / ethnicity question(s were developed for every country in the > world, users from some countries commonly disguise their country due > to censorship in that country, so we there would be a whole class of > systematic errors where we asked users the wrong country's > question(s). > > cheers > stuart > -- > ...let us be heard from red core to black sky > > On Tue, 22 Sep 2020 at 05:00, Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> wrote: > > > > Adding another point from Rebecca Maung who helps run the annual > Community > > Insights surveys <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Insights> > but > > isn't currently on this listserv so couldn't respond directly: > > > > This year's Community Insights survey (reporting scheduled for early > 2021) > > is the first that will ask Wikimedia contributors about race and > > ethnicity-- but only in certain geographies. Due to all the excellent > > points made in this thread, we have never asked a race or ethnicity > > question, but this year we decided to start asking locally relevant > > questions where we could. This year only editors in the US and Britain > will > > see a question about race or ethnicity, tailored to their local contexts. > > In the coming years, we will expand the countries and geographies that > see > > a question like this, prioritizing places where there is a larger editor > > presence and local laws and norms allow such questions. We have not yet > > discussed asking about religion in the Community Insights survey. > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 9:20 AM Isaac Johnson <is...@wikimedia.org> > wrote: > > > > > As pointed out by others, the highly contextualized nature of religion, > > > race, and ethnicity between countries makes it very difficult to > impossible > > > to craft questions that are not overly reductive but still somewhat > > > universal. Despite this challenge, understanding diversity in a way > that > > > captures these aspects is obviously quite important as they often > figure > > > very strongly into power and representation within history, media, etc. > > > > > > In general, if you're looking for large-scale surveys of editors, the > Meta > > > category (Category:Editor surveys > > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Editor_surveys>) is actually > > > quite complete (same for readers > > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Reader_surveys>). In > > > particular, I wrote what little I could find about these topics into > this > > > section of our recently published knowledge gaps taxonomy: > > > https://arxiv.org/pdf/2008.12314.pdf#subsubsection.3.1.7 > > > > > > The April 2011 editor survey took the approach of just asking people > how > > > they felt they were different from others in the community -- this > specific > > > question is not one that I would advocate today (asking people to > identify > > > all the ways in which they may be "outsiders" is not particularly > > > welcoming) but this is also probably the style of approach (asking > people > > > how well they feel represented within Wikipedia content or editor > > > community) that you'd have to take to get information on ethnicity / > race / > > > religion without writing country-specific questions: > > > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Editor_Survey_Report_-_April_2011.pdf#page=65 > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 6:12 AM Stuart A. Yeates <syea...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> The ethnicity / race question is an incredibly hard question to > > >> compose in an internationalised way. > > >> > > >> Pretty much every country in the world uses different terms and there > > >> are some very confusing cases where the same term is used in different > > >> countries to mean very different things (e,g, "Asian" in UK English vs > > >> New Zealand English). This is derived from varying legal definitions > > >> (for example blood quantum vs one-drop laws); the history of > > >> colonisation and waves of immigration to the country; along with > > >> cultural differences. > > >> > > >> cheers > > >> stuart > > >> -- > > >> ...let us be heard from red core to black sky > > >> > > >> On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 21:55, Federico Leva (Nemo) < > nemow...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > Su-Laine Brodsky, 21/09/20 08:19: > > >> > > I’m wondering if any large-scale surveys have been done that ask > > >> Wikipedia editors about their race, ethnicity, or religion? > > >> > > > >> > What international standards exist to phrase such questions? > > >> > Denominations commonly used in surveys in one country may be > considered > > >> > horrific or even illegal in others. > > >> > > > >> > I see OECD considers it a difficult problem too: > > >> > > > >> > ---- > > >> > > > >> > 76. Current NSOs collection practices cluster around three broad > > >> > categories: 1) all OECD countries collect information on some > diversity > > >> > proxies such as country of birth (36 OECD members); 2) a small > majority, > > >> > mostly Eastern European countries, the United Kingdom and Ireland, > > >> > gather additional information on race and ethnicity (16 OECD > members); > > >> > and 3) only a handful of countries in the Americas and Oceania > collect > > >> > data on indigenous identity (6 OECD members). Diversity statistics > are > > >> > collected from the perspective of either enumerating the size of the > > >> > relevant populations (typically in the census) or of comparing > > >> > well-being outcomes across different population groups. > > >> > > > >> > 77. While privacy and human rights legislation sometimes prevents > or > > >> > discourages the routine collection of diversity data, the need to > > >> > improve data availability and quality is being recognised in most > > >> > countries. Many countries are piloting the addition of new ethnic > > >> > response options to more accurately reflect the make-up of their > > >> > societies (e.g. Ireland, the United States), while Belgium is > > >> > considering allowing collection of race and ethnicity data within > the > > >> > restrictions imposed by the national legal framework. Within the > > >> > European Statistical System, the inclusion of more detailed > migration > > >> > information is also being considered: The Framework Regulation for > > >> > Production of European Statistics on Persons and Households European > > >> > foresees the incorporation of questions on the country of birth of > the > > >> > respondent’s parents in the Labour Force Surveys (from 2020), the > > >> > European Health Interview Survey, the European Union Statistics on > > >> > Income and Living Conditions, the Household Budget Surveys and the > > >> > Community surveys on ICT usage in households and by individuals. The > > >> > European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights is pursuing its Roma > and > > >> > Travellers Survey to collect comparable data in six selected Member > > >> > States in 2018 (FRA, 2018[77]). > > >> > > > >> > ---- > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > https://www.oecd.org/officialdocuments/publicdisplaydocumentpdf/?cote=SDD/DOC(2018)9&docLanguage=En > > >> > > > >> > Federico > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > >> > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Wiki-research-l mailing list > > >> Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia > Foundation > > > > > > > > > -- > > Isaac Johnson (he/him/his) -- Research Scientist -- Wikimedia Foundation > > _______________________________________________ > > Wiki-research-l mailing list > > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list Wiki-research-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
