--- Comment #14 from MZMcBride <b...@mzmcbride.com> ---
(In reply to Erik Moeller from comment #13)
> We can't get consensus on a per-wiki basis before enabling any software
> change. That has never been our practice and never will be.
Nobody is asking you to.
> What are the actual material issues with this deploy?
I think both you and Maryana are perhaps missing the point.
* [[m:Wikimedia Forum/Archives/2010-04#LiquidThreads]]
* [[m:Meta:Babel/Archives/2012-01#Enabling Liquid Thread on meta]]
The Flow team has put forward the idea that it can operate in a vacuum on a
wiki. I don't believe this is acceptable or reasonable. The Flow team has also
put forward the idea that hyper-local consensus (or in the case of Meta-Wiki,
no visible consensus...) can override project or global consensus. This is
pretty unchartered territory, no? For example, when's the last time a group of
five or six users determined whether to enable an extension on the English
The Flow team says Flow will be opt-in software, but then unilaterally declares
that it's going to deploy Flow to Meta-Wiki, with an accompanying self-merge in
Gerrit, and without any on-wiki discussion or any attempt to discuss the idea
with the Meta-Wiki community. Consensus is a _pillar_ of Wikimedia wikis.
I can't help but think that Tomasz is correct that you're repeating the
mistakes of VisualEditor by trying to steamroll communities into accepting this
software. Particularly on a smaller wiki such as Meta-Wiki, Flow can't simply
exist in a vacuum. Special:RecentChanges, Special:Watchlist, IRC feeds, etc.
are all common and will be infected by Flow.
Echoing what I said in comment 8, Meta-Wiki has repeatedly rejected
LiquidThreads, but perhaps the response to Flow will be different. Has anyone
asked the Meta-Wiki community about its thoughts on using alpha discussion
software? If the Flow team came into this seeking collaboration, it might find
users willing to test out its software.
I can't directly stop you from deploying the Flow extension to Meta-Wiki or any
other Wikimedia wiki against the local community's wishes, but I wouldn't
recommend it: history has repeatedly shown that the insurgents quite often beat
out an occupying force. If you try to force Flow onto the wikis, I think you
can only expect backlash and an increasingly inhospitable discussion
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