There is one big field, where redirects make sense: lists (of characters) or members of bands
*Rob Bourdon (Q19205) have article in 38 languages. There is also part of article de:Linkin_Park, which is about him and [[de:Rob Bourdon]] is redirect. *Character X from tv series Y is not notable enough to have separate article, but it should have own item on wikidata. And there is article about him in some small wiki. When you search , you found that there is one article, but fifteen redirects to section (List of Y characters#X) *Fred Weasley (Q13359612) have one sitelink (to redirect), but informations are in en, cs, fr, es, it, pt, pl, da and others too. But when I want to find relevant articles, I must try each language separate. With alowed redirects, I find it. JAnD 2014-10-16 11:06 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <[email protected]>: > With a view to supporting mobile, why bundle concepts needlessly into large > articles? Why not split them out and use the typical Wikipedia blue link > methodology to link them together? Some of the English Wikipedia articles > are very unwieldy on mobile and you need to scroll through lots of stuff to > get the information you are looking for. In the case you are describing > however, I find the article rather short and I can't even see any reference > to the occupation of hatmaker at all unless you are referring to a list of > notable hatters and milliners (which also seems rather short). > > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:40 AM, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> We have the relevant information on :en in "hatmaking". >> >> Why create a stub? Why require the duplication? >> >> Surely it is for client wikis to decide how they want to treat topics, >> either in a big omnibus article, or in a lot of little articles -- that is a >> decision for them. >> >> But we should be helping readers moving from one language to another to >> find the nearest equivalent in that language -- no matter whether in that >> language it is a small part of a large article, or a separate article in its >> own right. >> >> -- James. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 16/10/2014 09:29, Jane Darnell wrote: >>> >>> James, >>> I totally agree with Gerard and I totally disagree with you. The fact >>> that >>> the English Wikipedia does not have an article on "hatmaker" is not >>> something that Wikidata should support, and the energy you are wasting >>> with >>> your talk about redirects could better be spent on making a stub for >>> "hatmaker" on the English wikipedia. >>> Jane >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what I >>>> am >>>> saying. >>>> >>>> To be clearer: >>>> >>>> * Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink* >>>> not >>>> the item. >>>> * It is no more "Wikipedia centric" than noting that a link goes to a >>>> featured article in some language, or any other badge. >>>> >>>> I'm not proposing items be introduced for "new things that do not exist" >>>> >>>> >>>> Let's take an example, from Project Chat recently. >>>> >>>> * "Hatmaking" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article >>>> on >>>> it in English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatmaking >>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q663375 >>>> >>>> * "Hatmaker" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article >>>> on it on lots of Wikipedias. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q18199649 >>>> >>>> The two concepts are not the same. One is a skill, the other is an >>>> occupation. They have a P425 / P na relationship. >>>> >>>> It therefore would not make any sense to add "Hatmaking" as a label to >>>> the >>>> "Hatmaker" item. >>>> >>>> >>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to :en: defined for "Hatmaker". >>>> >>>> What would make sense would be to sitelink to the redirect page >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hatmaker&redirect=no >>>> with a badge, noting that this was a sitelink to a redirect page. >>>> >>>> >>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to wikis other than :en: defined for >>>> "Hatmaking" >>>> >>>> What would make sense would be to create redirects on these wikis, >>>> linking >>>> to their articles on "Hatmaker", and then add sitelinks to the >>>> "Hatmaking" >>>> item, pointing to these redirects in each of the languages. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To give another example: >>>> >>>> On Commons, we have a creator page for the engraver Daniel Havell, >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Creator:Daniel_Havell >>>> which ought to be made to draw from a Wikidata item for the engraver. >>>> (cf https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Creator/wrapper/test for >>>> tests) >>>> >>>> On en-wiki, there is no separate article for Daniel Havell. Instead >>>> there >>>> is a redirect, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daniel_Havell&; >>>> redirect=no, which points to a section of an article on the Havell >>>> family: >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Havell_family#Daniel_Havell >>>> >>>> Wikidata should have an item on Daniel Havell, which points to this >>>> redirect. >>>> >>>> That way, when the Creator template on Commons wants a link target on >>>> :enwiki, the Wikidata item can supply it. >>>> >>>> >>>> As I said, Gerard, I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. >>>> >>>> I hope it is clearer and makes more sense to you now. >>>> >>>> >>>> All best, >>>> >>>> James. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 16/10/2014 06:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hoi, >>>>> I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is a >>>>> good >>>>> thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly Wikipedia >>>>> centric and they introduce new things that do not exist. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - a redirect page to three pages is also called an disambiguation >>>>> page.. >>>>> We do support them. They are not redirects. >>>>> - when a redirect page refers to an article by another name, it >>>>> only >>>>> takes a label to add the needed link to the subject >>>>> >>>>> Seriously WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> GerardM >>>>> >>>>> On 14 October 2014 23:22, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Creating sitelinks to redirects: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> As I understand it, the classic workaround for this is to >>>>>> * go to client wiki, >>>>>> * edit the page temporarily so that it is not a redirect >>>>>> * add a sitelink >>>>>> * edit the page again to turn it back into a redirect. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thus, at least as I understand it, there is no overwhelming technical >>>>>> barrier to creating a sitelink to a redirect. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Looking back through the archives of Project Chat, it seems to be a >>>>>> perennial thing that we ought to permit sitelinks to redirects, eg >>>>>> most >>>>>> recently at >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Should_ >>>>>> all_occupations_be_separate_items_from_their_skills.3F >>>>>> >>>>>> which led to Kaldari filing Bugzilla: 71859 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But I'm not quite sure exactly what he wants solved, if sitelinks to >>>>>> redirects are /already/ possible. (Albeit requiring the slightly >>>>>> roundabout process above). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps what is needed is just a concerted RfC, to confirm once and >>>>>> for >>>>>> all that it is indeed the community view that such sitelinks are >>>>>> useful, >>>>>> and should be created. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> But there are a couple of things it would be nice to have, to confirm >>>>>> the >>>>>> practice: >>>>>> * A badge (eg the letter R on a red disc) to indicate that the >>>>>> sitelink >>>>>> to language xx is linking to a redirect, not a primary article. >>>>>> * On an item, a new property "redirected to", taking another item as >>>>>> its >>>>>> object, and the identity of the wiki as a qualifier. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> After that, we should go out creating this redirects on client wikis >>>>>> en >>>>>> masse, and site-linking them. >>>>>> >>>>>> This would solve a huge number of issues we currently have, where wiki >>>>>> A >>>>>> has lots of little articles, whereas wiki B has the same content all >>>>>> in >>>>>> sections of one article; or where wiki A and wiki B have chosen >>>>>> different >>>>>> primary items for their treatment of a field. (For example: the >>>>>> profession >>>>>> 'hatmaker' or the activity 'hatmaking'). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Allowing and encouraging sitelinks to redirect is the key to keeping a >>>>>> clean item structure on Wikidata, while still connecting readers to >>>>>> the >>>>>> most relevant pages in their preferred alternative languages. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- James. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14/10/2014 21:00, Jane Darnell wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> nope >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Smolenski Nikola <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Citiranje Jane Darnell <[email protected]>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) There is no way of making an interwikilink for a redirect, and >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> German Wikipedia's "afrikanische Pflaume" is currently a redirect >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> "Prunus" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You should still be able to make an interwiki link for a redirect >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> old >>>>>>>> way, >>>>>>>> are you not? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > _______________________________________________ Wikidata-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
