Hi. I understand your argument but I think there is an underlying incorrect assumption : template editors are actually ... Templates developers. Not regular editors. It's only a fraction of editors who actually touched a template in their life. (Maybe there is numbers somewhere)
With that in mind, the question become: will this change be any useful for those who already edited templates (my guess is barely) and for those who did never edited a template the same question can be asked. What stopped them until now, will Wikidata change anything to this, and lastly ... Will this feature have any influence at all ? I'm really dubious it's worth the trouble pictured like that. But I could be wrong. It would take more than a blogpost to convince me though ;) Le 11 juil. 2015 09:29, "Gerard Meijssen" <[email protected]> a écrit : > Hoi, > I blogged about it. My argument is that Wikipedia should not be fenced in > by assumptions from Wikidata. > Thanks, > GerardM > > > http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.nl/2015/07/wikidata-dont-fence-wikipedia-in.html > > On 10 July 2015 at 17:35, Gerard Meijssen <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hoi, >> I have been thinking about this. I think the current approach is wrong. I >> think it is the properties where Wikipedians rightfully want to be able to >> use a text as a label that fits their need. Restricting this is probably >> wrong. >> >> It is in the Q values that we do NOT want editors to make a change, >> obviously. I intent to write more about this. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 9 July 2015 at 12:15, Daniel Kinzler <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Before I reply to what you wrote Gerard, let me summarize the question we >>> actually need to answer to go forward: >>> >>> * currently, property values can be accessed from wikitext using the >>> property's >>> (unique) label. Do we want to keep this? (the alternative is access via >>> P-ids only) >>> >>> * if yes, should it be possible to change a property's label at all? >>> >>> * if yes, should references to the old label break, or should they >>> continue to work? >>> >>> * if they should continue to work, should this be achieved by making the >>> old >>> label an alias? >>> >>> * if no, how should it be achieved, exactly? >>> >>> >>> >>> Am 09.07.2015 um 11:54 schrieb Gerard Meijssen: >>> > Hoi, >>> > The parser would understand it because it stored information. The >>> property is >>> > still the same property, the label it uses is now seen as a local >>> overrride. >>> >>> That would be a completely new system, and quite complicated. It would >>> also >>> introduce a host of new issues (such local overrides may conflict with >>> new >>> names, or other local overrides, for instance. Language fallback makes >>> this even >>> more fun. Not to mention that we currently don't have a good place to >>> store this >>> kind of information). >>> >>> The current proposal is to store those overrides in wikidata, as aliases. >>> >>> > Daniel, there are many ways to solve this. The problem you face is >>> based on a >>> > misconception. Language are not meant for rigidity. >>> >>> Indeed. But names can be chosen to be unique. We do that all the time >>> when >>> naming pages. And when naming properties. Property names (labels) were >>> always >>> meant to be unique, this is nothing new. (For a while, there was a bug >>> that >>> allowed duplicate labels under *some* circumstances, sorry for that). >>> >>> > Expectting that you can has >>> > already been shown to be problematic. Consequently persisting on >>> labels to be >>> > always unique is a problem of your own choosing. A problem that will >>> not go away >>> > and is easiest solved now. >>> >>> If we drop the requirement that properties should be accessible from >>> wikitext >>> via their name, then yes, that would be easy. If people can live with >>> using >>> P-Ids directly, that's fine with me. >>> >>> > It is abundantly clear that you WILL use the requirement of Wikidata >>> as an >>> > excuse when a language has no alternative. >>> >>> Excuse for what? From a programming perspective, making people use IDs >>> is by far >>> the simplest solution. It's easy enough for remove support for label >>> based >>> access to properties, if that support is not needed. >>> >>> Allowing access from wikitext using non-unique names, THAT is not >>> something I >>> would want to support. I can't imagine how that would work at all. >>> >>> -- >>> Daniel Kinzler >>> Senior Software Developer >>> >>> Wikimedia Deutschland >>> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > >
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