Nowadays, there are various dropCap, quote, toolTip, foot note, 3d text, gradient text designs and style sheet plugins in some richtext editors, more and more cms are implementing these features.
Why should mw not take the step to catch up the trends? It's not a bad thing to have. If the content in WE can be more vivid than traditional wiki and authors could just easily copy and paste their existing documents into WE, it should help WE stand out from other open-content providers and maybe speed up content creation. I don't think it's difficult to have a wyiwyg editor that also accepts wiki syntax. W On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Brent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are always going to be barriers to participation .. there always is. > I have to get up and go vote, i need to educate myself about the candidates > and the issues, i have to register. If I can't be bothered with any of this > -- i don't vote, i don't participate. Many people don't participate in the > most fundamental participatory processes. They aren't going to for Open > content either. > > If its not in me to learn the simple syntax, to click the edit button and > explore the toolbar, then I'll probably be a consumer. If a person wants to > be a producer -- they'll click the button, they'll learn the toolbar and the > syntax. Somehow I don't think the barrier is really the toolbar vs the GUI; > and in a sense we're doing it a bit of a disservice to focus on this. The > existing mediawiki projects would back this up I'd say - there's more open > content in the collective wikimedia foundation websites than in any other > site on the planet, in fact probably in most of the other open content sites > combined ... nobody had a GUI. Does that not resonate somehow? > > There's far more "barriers" here than creating a better simpler GUI with > buttons that does everything is going to fix. Text is not going to ooze out > of our open educational pores as soon as a WYSIWYG toolbar appears. It > hasn't yet. Anyone know of a Confluence wiki thats making any waves in this > movement? probably not... > > The existing toolbar on mediawiki is a teaching tool. Once you learn the > syntax the toolbar is pointless. I don't have to think about where the > fullstop/period is on my keyboard, i barely think about when to use it -- > double brackets aren't that different. I think what i'm getting at is that > its misguided to focus on the toolbar, on the WYSIWYG and in fact the fact > that there is no GUI, no WYSIWYG might actually have been a big benefit as > it has not then been a barrier to people wanting to learn the more complex > syntaxes that the software provides. Openness is a tricky value in some ways > ... it could be argued that its actually the openness in all facets of this > sofware from the code itself to the editing syntax that has given it this > momentum but we want to hide it all from the user behind a white box, for > the sake of what? getting moderate formatting advantages for the most > people!? > > brent. > > > > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 11:21 AM, David McQuillan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi Brent, > > > > You say "I still just don't get this whole argument..." > > > > The argument that I and others have made is that it's in the best > > interest of WikiEducator & all wikis really to reduce and eliminate where > > possible any barriers to participation. Any barrier will act to reduce > > participation. Don't we want as many people as possible involved in wiki > > media development? > > > > I don't think that taking the attitude of "if you can't be bothered > > spending [the time needed], then I guess you just miss half of the > > revolution -- sorry" is particularly constructive. Wikis are not the > > revolution. They're only one of the open-content platforms that are out > > there. If they don't meet the evolving needs of consumers, then they will > > fall by the wayside. > > > > D > > > > >>> Brent <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/21/08 8:10 PM >>> > > its not a bad idea ... Alexander Hayes and I tried this once though and > > it > > was harder than it seemed to locate icons for half of the wiki things > > that > > were there, but it would be worth another shot. Perhaps a good graphic > > designer and a bit of feedback from the community could make a page on > > the > > wiki for experimentation. It's pretty easy to swap them in and out if > > you > > have access so we could set up a test wiki somewhere and give it a go. > > > > I still just don't get this whole argument and it often makes me just > > think, > > well ... if you can't be bothered spending all of about 3 hours to get a > > grip on the basic basic basic (did I emphasize how basic this is?) > > syntax, > > then I guess you just miss half of the revolution -- sorry. You can just > > be > > a consumer. You want to be on the bus then take the pill mate, otherwise > > ... > > get out of the way. > > > > brent. > > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Leigh Blackall <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > The WYSIWYG that is already in all MediaWikis just needs a little > > > tweaking. The icons it uses are way weird! Is there any way we can get > > in > > > there and change the icons so that they are more in tune with the > > majority > > > of other WYSIWYG? And then, when we click the WYSIWYG icons, how about > > the > > > syntax that is placed be just a little more helpful.. such as when > > making a > > > link, we highlight the text and then click the weird link icon. It > > adds [] > > > around the word. What it needs is some red text that says: *add your > > link > > > here*. in red so we can't miss it. I reckon that would be a good > > > compromise, where drained newbies can avoid pure editing, but by using > > the > > > icons they gradually come to appreciate and learn straight syntax. > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 2:04 PM, Jim Tittsler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 1:33 PM, James Neill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > i've found that the OO Writer MW export works nicely for > > converting > > > > > existing documents into markup - but its not much good for live > > > > editing, nor > > > > > is OO it something that your average teacher is familiar with > > > > > > > > Yes, there is a difference between authoring and editing. Once the > > > > round-trip is possible, I think "editing" will be more practical. I > > > > also think that once you have the basic structure, editing a bit > > here > > > > and there in wiki format is not as off-putting. You've got lots of > > > > examples at hand. > > > > > > > > And it can be done without constant connectivity. > > > > > > > > (Gee, average teachers don't seem familiar with much in this domain. > > :-) > > > > > > > > > this is possibly where moodle will win out in situations where a > > MW > > > > install > > > > > or WV/WE could have been used > > > > > > > > I don't quite follow this. The typical Moodle's htmlArea seems more > > > > frustrating than learning a bit of wiki markup. I guess there are > > > > different frustration thresholds. > > > > > > > > And now that there are baby steps in exporting WE content in content > > > > package form, you can gain the benefit of collaborative editing but > > > > still allow deployment in legacy LMSes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Leigh Blackall > > > +64(0)21736539 > > > skype - leigh_blackall > > > SL - Leroy Goalpost > > > http://learnonline.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -------------------------------- > > http://digitalsynapse.co.nz > > http://greymatter.co.nz > > -------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > -------------------------------- > http://digitalsynapse.co.nz > http://greymatter.co.nz > -------------------------------- > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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