In our institution, we provide access... This means:
Terminals = NZ$2000 x 100s Support perosonel = $40 000 per year x 6 Internet provision = 10s of 1000s per year Software on terminals = $700 x 100s Maitenance = $500 per terminal per year (includes depreciation) Periphials = $500 - $1000 per terminal per year Servers = $15 000 Website = Team of 4 @ at least $40 000 each per year Server software = 10's $1000 Staff training = $100 000 per year should I go on? ICT is far from cheap, and is probably the single most expensive cost. Rethinking the way we do all these things - such as FOSS, $500 laptops, Wireless etc etc.. could save huge money On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Leigh, > > I am curious why you think it is mostly about rethinking ICT budgets? > At present the internet is pretty much a free and shared service > available to all education. Once you have access, there isn't that > much you cannot do for free on the web. I'll go back to the beginning > of this thread and re-state, I believe it has more to do with > rethinking assessment (or support) and accreditation, and making these > two open... Are you suggesting the ICT budgets be moved out of the > institutions hands and put elsewhere (funding access, or further > funding the internet as a global shared service)? > > Peter > > On Apr 17, 1:37 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Free as in cost is something I'm interested in. Indulge me on the > following: > > > > Music will survive long after its institutions die > > Journalism will survive long after its institutions die > > Education will survive long after its institutions die > > > > (Inspired by a recent post by George Siemens) > > > > Granted, there will be a lot of loses, but with that impending doom as a > > possible future for educational institutions, it is interesting to > imagine > > how education might be post apocalypse? > > > > Recently, I have been looking at student debt in New Zealand, their > costs of > > living, the sacrifices they have to make to get an education.. and then > the > > cost to institutions for offering the education services. I'm convinced > that > > we could get the cost way way down, to a point where it could be > conceivably > > free - so long as there is about 60% public funding behind current > education > > services, as it seems there is in NZ. And that's without changing much > in > > the way of education practice - most of it comes from rethinking ICT > > budgets.. we in this thread are only skimming the surface of what the > future > > may look like... > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:31 PM, vmensah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > so it will not be called free in terms of cost, but "free" in terms of > > > access to materials. > > > > > On Mar 26, 10:47 pm, "David Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Peter, > > > > > > The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school > > > > will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state > govt > > > > pays the bills). > > > > > > D > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > > David, > > > > > > > This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this > forward > > > as > > > > > an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, > will > > > > > students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just > be > > > > > "open" within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove > out > > > > > the model... > > > > > > > There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this > discussion > > > > > thread. Are we mis-using the word "Education" within OER. As we > seem > > > > > to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is > what > > > > > you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, > > > > > accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. > > > > > Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning > > > Resources > > > > > (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; > > > > >http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo. > .. > > > > > Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access > Accrediation > > > > > before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole > of > > > > > Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining > their > > > > > domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that > Assessment > > > > > and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER > don't we > > > > > need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the > > > > > institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open > and > > > > > free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will > be > > > > > restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about > the > > > > > institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? > > > > > > > I look forward to your reply(ies)... > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 8:40 am, "David Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Simon and Leigh, > > > > > > > > We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one > step > > > in > > > > > > the approval process away, but for a year now we've been > working on > > > > > > establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded > (and > > > > > > therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) > > > completely > > > > > > online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the > entire > > > > > > curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a > Fall > > > > > > 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, > meaning > > > that > > > > > > we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade > > > > > > curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality > (i.e., > > > not > > > > > > OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for > the > > > high > > > > > > school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until > in > > > 2012 > > > > > > we're running all four years of high school. > > > > > > > > All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter > > > > > > document, as will all the technology we will use to run the > school. > > > We > > > > > > hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice > and > > > the > > > > > > funding of both learning AND education... > > > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall < > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) > > > > > > > > > Maybe I should clarify what I say about "learning being free, > > > education > > > > > > > still costs" > > > > > > > > > I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are > always > > > free to do, > > > > > > > and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and > > > communication, > > > > > > > learning might be vastly improved. > > > > > > > > > But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is > the > > > formality > > > > > > > that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. > > > Education is the > > > > > > > bit of paper that says you have been learning... > > > > > > > > > So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a > bit > > > too cynical > > > > > > > in my use of the work education. > > > > > > > > > Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled > by my > > > slogan. > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some > others > > > jump in... > > > > > > > > > > > Cormac, > > > > > > > > > > > There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons > > > contribution > > > > > > > > > is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it > can > > > target a > > > > > > > > > single person and evaluate what they have done... > probably > > > one day > > > > > > > > > (soon), see these two > > > > > > > references; > > >http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.s. > .. > > > > > > > > > > Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. > > > Evaluation > > > > > > > > to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, > > > always comes > > > > > > > > down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. > have > > > > > > > > institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old > > > industries, no > > > > > > > > problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; > > > rarely a > > > > > > > > clue. > > > > > > > > > > Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 > > > years. Unis > > > > > > > > were trying to "teach" AV production stuff. Many didn't > have a > > > > > > > > recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or > > > actors > > > > > > > > interested in recording. Even if some students did, they > > > wouldn't be > > > > > > > > encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a > lovely > > > clean > > > > > > > > studio. > > > > > > > > > > So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in > his > > > > > > > > studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers > > > accredited > > > > > > > > courses.http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis > were > > > > > > > > included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers > that > > > the > > > > > > > > accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave > > > students a > > > > > > > > piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them > find > > > them a > > > > > > > > job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. > > > > > > > > > > The thing i find fascinating - when watching new > interactive & > > > global > > > > > > > > media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their > Project > > > Groups' > > > > > > > > Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good > habits, > > > while at > > > > > > > > the same time watching national Teaching institutions > > > struggling to > > > > > > > > think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have > > > changed. > > > > > > > > > > In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of > > > global > > > > > > > > interactive environments, which are obviously self > sustaining > > > and > > > > > > > > appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around > the > > > things a > > > > > > > > good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) > > > experience. > > > > > > > >http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/Andthenyou look at unis' web > > > sites/ > > > > > > > > brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on > their > > > > > > > > members' communications, the other on the institution's > > > information. > > > > > > > > i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) > NETWORKS. > > > > > > > > > > As Cormac says, "you don't get a PhD, but you might be a > damn > > > sight > > > > > > > > > > more eligible to get a job with a certain employer > institution > > > that is > > > > > > > > open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done". > I > > > don't > > > > > > > > think it's even a matter of them being open minded. It's > more a > > > matter > > > > > > > > that in the commercial world, one gets paid for results, > and if > > > you > > > > > > > > can point to something, like Liam can, who do you think > will > > > get the > > > > > > > > job?.This is very new ground. > > > > > > > > > > I also think Leigh is quite right. "Through an > international > > > network > > > > > > > > > > of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of > > > > > > > > such processes and services greatly reduced!" But you have > to > > > have the > > > > > > > > "international network" first, and all we do have at the > moment > > > is a > > > > > > > > bunch of National .edu ones. Thankfully Web 2.0 Inc. are > able > > > to help > > > > > > > > fill the obvious gaps. But you got this wrong. "Learning is > > > still > > > > > > > > free, education still costs". > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > > -- -- Leigh Blackall +64(0)21736539 skype - leigh_blackall SL - Leroy Goalpost http://learnonline.wordpress.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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