Leigh,

I'm not sure if you said ...jobs on the line... with tongue in cheek?
but all the institutions I have worked for [colleges and universities
(particularly recently)] have had problems filling IT positions. And
when I consider global demand for experienced IT people I don't think
job losses should be an issue. I think it's more conceptual and local
competition between institutions. I just don't think the current crop
of senior institutional management truly understand the concept of a
national or regional shared service and the huge financial benefits it
could provide. Well have to wait for a change of the senior management
guard before we can make great headway...

On Apr 21, 5:57 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> it would be hey James.. there must be organisations out there that do that.
> I heard that Apple Australia issue macs in a box to all their employees, and
> then it is up to them to work out how to get them running and keep them
> running.
>
> I think Utility web services with networked users and support is clearly the
> way to go.. why is it taking IT units so long to catch on? Oh, I know.. jobs
> on the line..
>
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:05 AM, James Neill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Perhaps uni's provide minimal baseline IT service. Students and staff
> > then receive their proportion of IT budget to spend it how they see fit.
> > That would fun to see.
>
> > Leigh Blackall wrote:
>
> > Yes, that's precisely what I am thinking. Utility internet services,
> > wireless, and individually owned units. And then some.
>
> > Cost of ICTs is covered by institutional budgets, that are suplimented by
> > government funding, as well as student fees... so indirectly the cost of
> > ICTs affects student fees.
>
> > So, from a campaign perspective, one would have to be careful when
> > lobbying and then over seeing such a cost reduction proposal, that it did
> > indeed have a direct impact of student fees. A bit like global aid money..
> > we have to follow the trail all the way to the end to make sure it gets to
> > those who need.
>
> > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 6:03 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Leigh,
>
> > > Upon reading this reply I believe we have considerable alignment on
> > > this issue. A few questions on this topic as I believe them imporatnt
> > > to this conversation.
>
> > > 1) Someone pays for access somehow. To say your institution provides
> > > access for free I would question this. Where is the cost for this
> > > infrastructure covered? In student tuition fees? or internal to the
> > > institutions budget? Or is it provided for free by national
> > > infrastructure budgets? Other?
> > > 2) No need to go on... But I wonder if NZ has an initiative to create
> > > an academic shared service for much of this infrastructure. One thing
> > > I have been advocating for is national (or provincial, as in Canada)
> > > shared service for many of the items you have listed. Just imagine how
> > > great it would be if there was a NZ national infrastructure for all
> > > this. I could see at least six of these items moved into this national
> > > infrastructure and the costs shared among all the institutions of
> > > learning that consume it. (that would be great savings for each
> > > institution) Just think of the competative advantage NZ institutions
> > > could have in the global distance ed space if they pulled this off. So
> > > much more money would be made available for the development of courses
> > > not in dealing with infrastructure...
>
> > > Then make a deal with ASUS and give every student an Eee PC 900 with
> > > very little (or maybe no) increase to tuition fees...
>
> > > Cheers,
>
> > > On Apr 18, 6:45 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > In our institution, we provide access...
>
> > > > This means:
>
> > > > Terminals = NZ$2000 x 100s
> > > > Support perosonel = $40 000 per year x 6
> > > > Internet provision = 10s of 1000s per year
> > > > Software on terminals = $700 x 100s
> > > > Maitenance = $500 per terminal per year (includes depreciation)
> > > > Periphials = $500 - $1000 per terminal per year
> > > > Servers = $15 000
> > > > Website = Team of 4 @ at least $40 000 each per year
> > > > Server software = 10's $1000
> > > > Staff training = $100 000 per year
>
> > > > should I go on?
>
> > > > ICT is far from cheap, and is probably the single most expensive cost.
> > > > Rethinking the way we do all these things - such as FOSS, $500
> > > laptops,
> > > > Wireless etc etc.. could save huge money
>
> > >  > On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Leigh,
>
> > > > > I am curious why you think it is mostly about rethinking ICT
> > > budgets?
> > > > > At present the internet is pretty much a free and shared service
> > > > > available to all education. Once you have access, there isn't that
> > > > > much you cannot do for free on the web. I'll go back to the
> > > beginning
> > > > > of this thread and re-state, I believe it has more to do with
> > > > > rethinking assessment (or support) and accreditation, and making
> > > these
> > > > > two open... Are you suggesting the ICT budgets be moved out of the
> > > > > institutions hands and put elsewhere (funding access, or further
> > > > > funding the internet as a global shared service)?
>
> > > > > Peter
>
> > > > > On Apr 17, 1:37 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > Free as in cost is something I'm interested in. Indulge me on the
> > > > > following:
>
> > > > > > Music will survive long after its institutions die
> > > > > > Journalism will survive long after its institutions die
> > > > > > Education will survive long after its institutions die
>
> > > > > > (Inspired by a recent post by George Siemens)
>
> > > > > > Granted, there will be a lot of loses, but with that impending
> > > doom as a
> > > > > > possible future for educational institutions, it is interesting to
> > > > > imagine
> > > > > > how education might be post apocalypse?
>
> > > > > > Recently, I have been looking at student debt in New Zealand,
> > > their
> > > > > costs of
> > > > > > living, the sacrifices they have to make to get an education.. and
> > > then
> > > > > the
> > > > > > cost to institutions for offering the education services. I'm
> > > convinced
> > > > > that
> > > > > > we could get the cost way way down, to a point where it could be
> > > > > conceivably
> > > > > > free - so long as there is about 60% public funding behind current
> > > > > education
> > > > > > services, as it seems there is in NZ. And that's without changing
> > > much
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the way of education practice - most of it comes from rethinking
> > > ICT
> > > > > > budgets.. we in this thread are only skimming the surface of what
> > > the
> > > > > future
> > > > > > may look like...
>
> > > > > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 8:31 PM, vmensah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > so it will not be called free in terms of cost, but "free" in
> > > terms of
> > > > > > > access to materials.
>
> > > > > > > On Mar 26, 10:47 pm, "David Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Peter,
>
> > > > > > > > The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the
> > > school
> > > > > > > > will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the
> > > state
> > > > > govt
> > > > > > > > pays the bills).
>
> > > > > > > > D
>
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > >  David,
>
> > > > > > > > >  This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this
> > > > > forward
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > >  an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in
> > > Utah,
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > > >  students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all
> > > this just
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >  "open" within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to
> > > prove
> > > > > out
> > > > > > > > >  the model...
>
> > > > > > > > >  There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this
> > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > >  thread. Are we mis-using the word "Education" within OER.
> > > As we
> > > > > seem
> > > > > > > > >  to have agreement that Education is the whole, where
> > > learning is
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > > >  you do with the resources. Education includes the
> > > assessment,
> > > > > > > > >  accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions
> > > provide.
> > > > > > > > >  Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open
> > > Learning
> > > > > > > Resources
> > > > > > > > >  (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell
> > > article;
>
> > >http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellbo.
> > > > > ..
> > > > > > > > >  Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access
> > > > > Accrediation
> > > > > > > > >  before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the
> > > whole
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >  Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing
> > > restraining
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >  domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that
> > > > > Assessment
> > > > > > > > >  and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward
> > > OER
> > > > > don't we
> > > > > > > > >  need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the
> > > > > > > > >  institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it
> > > open
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >  free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success
> > > will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >  restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >  institutions still controlling the Assessment and
> > > Accreditation?
>
> > > > > > > > >  I look forward to your reply(ies)...
>
> > > > > > > > >  P
>
> > > > > > > > >  On Mar 26, 8:40 am, "David Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >  > Simon and Leigh,
>
> > > > > > > > >  > We haven't been talking about it much, because we're
> > > still one
> > > > > step
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >  > the approval process away, but for a year now we've been
> > > > > working on
> > > > > > > > >  > establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly
> > > funded
> > > > > (and
> > > > > > > > >  > therefore free as in beer to students in the state of
> > > Utah)
> > > > > > > completely
> > > > > > > > >  > online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout
> > > the
> > > > > entire
> > > > > > > > >  > curriculum. The final approval should be given this May
> > > for a
> > > > > Fall
> > > > > > > > >  > 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders,
> > > > > meaning
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >  > we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th
> > > grade
> > > > > > > > >  > curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone
> > > quality
> > > > > (i.e.,
>
> ...
>
> read more ยป
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"WikiEducator" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to