Leigh,

Do not give up being so candid. And please do not consider your time
spent with WE as too exhasting. You add great value, as I would like
to think WE has also  brought you great value and further insight into
international efforts toward truely open education. Your knowledge on
the matter I am sure now exceeds most of your network due to the
"hands-on" experience you have had with WE...

The challenge I have is I agree with most of what you say. I also see
WE moving toward what you aspire, not away from it. I see rubber hits
the road activities that (I believe) will open WE up even further...
time will tell on this... I certainly hope WE finds ways to attract
people from all over the world and surrounds it all with language that
will engage many people. I certainly hope that one individual,
philanthropist, group, etc... will not be highlighted over another.
For in the end this is what I see collaboration all about.

Go Leigh Go... If not for WE I would not know you and that would be a
big loss for me...

Peter

On Oct 28, 12:21 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thank you for your perspective Anil, I hope more will share theirs on this,
> however briefly if it is seen as a time wasting thread. It is helping me to
> think things through on a bigger picture level, even though I have gone
> ahead and edited the Wikipedia entry so it is consistent with other entries,
> and see that other edits have followed.
>
> I am not apposed to mentioning Wayne as the founder - nor including
> reference to COL, UNESCO and HF. I was apposed to the significance those
> pieces of information had over and at the expense of any other information
> about the project.
>
> To me, the idea of a single curriculum is of grave concern - and I always
> took it as just careless language (haven spoken to Wayne personally about
> it) and that it would be rectified sooner than it has. In countries where
> colonisation is a very sensitive issue, such as Australia and New Zealand
> (but certainly not limited to those as you know), such a statement of
> singularity would be the very thing that prevents engagement. Indeed, it is
> associations like this that is one of the reasons that most my network
> (prior to participating in the Wikieducator project) has not followed me
> into Wikieducator. This has troubled and perplexed me for a long time,
> thinking it to be mere technical or usability issues.
>
> While I have come to appreciate some of the new connections that the
> Wikieducator project has given me, I think my history in this email forum
> shows a great many issues I have brought up that have exhausted a huge
> amount of everyone's time in debating here, not the least my own. Almost all
> of these issues have largely remained unresolved. The only good that I can
> see coming out of argument is the opportunity to clarify the expression of a
> position, but to what end?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:51 PM, Anil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi friends,
>
> > There is nothing wrong in mentioning the founder in the very beginning
> > of the topic, you can see thousands of such articles that are well
> > read on www. Nothing that is man-made happens in the world without a
> > sparkling thought in somebody's mind who has the initiative to trigger
> > action for making it a reality. It is such initiators who become
> > founders. Let us accept this fact and deliver the beauty and worth of
> > mutual trust, recognition and consideration that are the crux of the
> > very existence of human societies. .
>
> > Founders can bring in the support of very big institutions into the
> > project. Neither it prevents any one from placing a reference or photo
> > of the founder at the opening of the article about the project nor it
> > any way reduces the importance of organizational partners.These are
> > the ways societies express its gratitude to those who provide valuable
> > social services.
>
> > ''WikiEducator is a community project working collaboratively with the
> > Free Culture Movement towards a free version of the education
> > curriculum by 2015''  is a well accepted vision statement of the
> > project. We are all attracted to the project via that vision. I don't
> > see any reason to dispute it now. Let us not disrupt the decorum for
> > no reason.
>
> > Finally about the anxiety over the curriculum, I think, since it is a
> > wiki project, there may not have any restrictions in thinking about
> > different national curricula and connecting them to an international
> > movement. Let us itry to see the faces of billions and billions of
> > poor to whom the free and open educational material that we are
> > developing would become godsend...then the trivial issues may
> > disappear in void for we have no time to waste.
>
> > Anil
>
> > On Oct 28, 1:03 pm, "Leigh Blackall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Offense most certainly taken, and thank you Patricia, things are much
> > > clearer now. I'm sorry you see my concerns as destructive and personally
> > > motivated. For the record, I have made no such accusations of Wayne but
> > > acknowledge that it is very difficult not to. As long as Wayne is the
> > > central figure complete with thumbnail image, I suppose my criticism of
> > the
> > > message that is out there about Wikieducator (such as the Wikipedia page)
> > > inevitably becomes personal.
>
> > > On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Patricia Schlicht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >wrote:
>
> > > >  ……Or could it be that I am completely out of touch with Wikieducator
> > and
> > > > need to…
>
> > > > No offense intended, Leigh, but I think you seriously need to find the
> > true
> > > > essence of the project again, so you don't only talk and completely
> > > > overanalyze anything and everything, seeing things were there are none,
> > > > making assumptions and coming to conclusions that are completely out of
> > the
> > > > sky.
>
> > > > You seem to become what Open Educational resources formerly gave a bad
> > > > reputation. While your intentions might be well-intended, you are
> > reaching
> > > > the opposite of what you are trying to achieve. You don't raise issues,
> > > > rather eye-brows and not the first time.
>
> > > > Your unfounded and completely ridiculous accusations of Wayne's
> > intentions
> > > > only goes to show that you have absolutely no idea what is involved or
> > what
> > > > the goal of the project is. It seems to me that you are only out to
> > > > discredit the good that has been done and in such a way that the rest
> > of us
> > > > can only shake their head and credit it to your youth.
>
> > > > I think you are personally motivated and/or threatened which is why you
> > > > want to ensure you get to ruin the project by inflicting nonsense into
> > > > people's heads. There are 1000s of people out there who you slap in the
> > face
> > > > with often very negative comments. Ever thought about this?
>
> > > > WikiEducator is a fantastic project. Sure, there is lots to be done and
> > > > many improvements to be made. There is no one here who wants to
> > overpower
> > > > anyone, Wayne not in particular. He would never do anything that isn't
> > done
> > > > with integrity. He is a person of high values which he honors.
>
> > > > Leigh, you are knowledgeable guy and your expertise is needed….as part
> > of
> > > > big team…what are you trying to do???!
>
> > > > My friend, seriously, I understand you got your fires burning, but I
> > also
> > > > think you are running in the wrong direction and have lost any
> > objectivity
> > > > in this matter.
>
> > > > ….or maybe this is one of your attempts to stir up controversy?...Not a
> > > > very productive way of doing this, if that's the case. The key is
> > *"...working
> > > > collaboratively with everyone…", *so suggest changes instead of
> > > > "badgering" the author.
>
> > > > Cheers,
>
> > > > Patricia
>
> > > >  ------------------------------
>
> > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Leigh Blackall
> > > > *Sent:* Monday, October 27, 2008 8:02 PM
> > > > *To:* [email protected]
> > > > *Subject:* [WikiEducator] Re: Another Milestone
>
> > > > Thanks for the pointer to the Wikipedia page about Wikieducator Anil
>
> > > > I feel very unsettled by it - particularly:
>
> > > >    1. the celebration of an individual above all else (rather than
> > simply
> > > >    in the history),
> > > >    2. its strong references to COL, UNESCO and Hewlet Foundation (above
> > > >    other partners who can show a far greater contribution to the
> > project than
> > > >    any of those),
> > > >    3. and its quotation of that perplexing, even frightening line that
> > > >    SOME (one) wikieducator Users choose to use, to the detriment of the
> > > >    project: *"...working collaboratively with the free culture
> > movement<
> >http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?mjhOCyYMeodIL6zBYQsCzAQsLCM0vMUN8H9...>towards
> > a free version of the education curriculum.
> > > >    *"
>
> > > > Obviously, we are not talking about developing a single curriculum!..
> > are
> > > > we? If we are, I'm out now. If we are not, then can we please
> > systematically
> > > > go through every piece of PR out there and correct it to something more
> > > > acceptable: *"...working collaboratively with everyone towards the
> > > > development free versions of education curricula for everyone.*"
>
> > > > As for the reference to central bodies like COL, UNESCO, A "free
> > culture
> > > > movement" and even Hewlet Foundation, I think these should not be
> > included
> > > > in an graphical box heading the article, and should merely be listed
> > along
> > > > with all other contributing organisations, as is consistant with other
> > > > Wikipedia articles for similar projects like Wikiversity<
> >http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2OqekQnC1P1JBUQsLCzAQsCzBYS03-7695p...>.
>
> > > > Could it be that Wikieducator PR is designed to sell the project to
> > > > specific funding bodies at the expense of a balanced and accurate
> > account of
> > > > what Wikieducator really is? Seems to me that the Wikipedia entry is in
> > need
> > > > of some serious wikification<
> >http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?5AQsFELc3C3rbNEVvd79EVd7bVI07YeciaO...>!
> > > > Or could it be that I am completely out of touch with Wikieducator and
> > need
> > > > to rethink my association to it?
>
> > > > Off to start an edit war in Wikipedia I suspect...
>
> > > >  On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 9:57 PM, NELLIE DEUTSCH <
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi Randy,
> > > > What a wonderful date: Valentine's Day and my husband's birthday.
>
> > > > Warm wishes,
> > > > Nellie Deutsch
> > > > Doctoral Student
> > > > Educational Leadership
> > > > Curriculum and Instruction
> > > >http://www.nelliemuller.com<
> >http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?1pd7aqbP0VwSOYqenPhOqejhO-r01gYY-nG...>
> > > >http://www.integrating-technology.com/pd<
> >http://console.mxlogic.com/redir/?2OqekQnC1P1JBUQsLCzAQsCzBYS02B2vAoX...>
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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