Hi John, That's a good question -- something all educators need to reflect on!
In this world of social software, we could reasonably make a case that learning to use social software is a life skill for the future :-) It's interesting to note that the overwhelming majority of new account users in WikiEducator cite the opportunity to learn wiki skills as a major factor for joining our community -- and we have the data to prove it! Cheers Wayne 2009/11/22 john stampe <[email protected]> > Sorry, I did not quite understand what you where asking. And I will agree > with Wayne in his response to you. > > But I have a question. And this is addressed not just to you, but to > everyone. Why is it that educators -- the people whose job it is to teach > students about new technology and concepts -- do not want to learn the > technology themselves? > > I am not taking a position on use, or ease of use, of technology, I am just > curious why this attitude exists. Thoughts? > > Cheers, > > John > > http://www.wikieducator.org/User:JohnWS > http://johnsearth.blogspot.com > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* 2web3 <[email protected]> > > *To:* WikiEducator <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Sat, November 21, 2009 4:58:35 PM > *Subject:* [WikiEducator] Re: Collaborative Document sharing > > > Thanks for the explanation. I understand all the concepts that you > just outlined, but this is not what I asked. Let me try to explain the > problem again. > > The target audience of this site are educators. Why educators are > using it? Because wiki makes collaboration and sharing of the content > easy, unlike MS Word. But I still consider that they need to be quite > computer literate to be able to use a wiki site. How many educators > are NOT using wikis because they need to learn and use a cryptic > "wiki" language? I think they fall back to the trusted tool, such as > MS Word and live in the world of pain by collaborating via e-mail. Why > they use MS Word and Notepad? Because educational content rarely is > just bland text. And boy they need to print it. And they don't care > why wiki cannot be easily print, web/HTML/CSS or not. In MS Word it's > easy, what you see on screen is exactly what gets printed. This > problem is solved long time ago. > > Am I the only one who sees the world this way and everybody else is > just happy the way things are? Educators, what about the colleagues > that don't use WE? Am I right or not? > > On Nov 20, 11:47 pm, john stampe <[email protected]> wrote: > > I am not sure exactly what your question is, but I will attempt a reply > anyway. > > > > First, I think you are confused a little with some concepts. > > > > A text editor is for typing text. It does not directly give you > formatting. The resulting product is simply a text file. MS Word or > OpenOffice on the other hand is a word processor, it can add formatting, > tables, etc. The problem with sharing them is actually in the format used, > usually each program has their own format. OpenOffice has helped by using > the standardized XML format. > > > > Wiki's and other structured text systems such as LaTeX are another > different thing. Word processor files contain all the formatting hard coded > into them, like a binary file. However, for structured text (wikis) the > files are actually text files with the formatting indictated, like computer > code. The underlying wiki software then turns that code into what you see in > your browser (it slightly more complicated, but I won't go into detail). > > > > Yes, wikis are not WYSIWYG, but they are simply text formats, not locked > in formats. But there is being developed WYSIWYG editor for wikis right here > on WE, it is being tested on our test site. > > > > If you understand wiki syntax, then you can actually work on stuff > offline. It is what I normally do as I do not have a permanent internet > connection. I write my stuff offline in a text editor using wiki syntax and > then paste it on to the web when I am connected. Again this is because the > wiki page is simply a text file. (See here for my guide > http://www.wikieducator.org/Help:Editing_using_a_text_editor) > > > > I am not sure what you mean by rich formatting. Most of the formatting > problem I think you are refering to is a limitation on html not in the wiki. > And as most professional designers will tell you what looks good on a screen > is not what looks good when printed and vice versa. (As the scribus website > http://www.scribus.netsays "Graphics used on a website are almost always > unusable for commercial printing".) > > > > Hope this helps. > > John > > > > http://www.wikieducator.org/User:JohnWShttp://johnsearth.blogspot.com > > > > ________________________________ > > From: 2web3 <[email protected]> > > To: WikiEducator <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sat, November 21, 2009 1:36:16 PM > > Subject: [WikiEducator] Collaborative Document sharing > > > > I have a somewhat generic question related to editors in general. I > > feel this discomfort with current state of document creation. Let me > > explain. > > > > In the beginning there were just simple text editors. Then they got > > more sophisticated, visual, WYSIWYG, culminating with products such as > > MS Word and alike. This is all great, but the document is stored in > > individual files (silos) and is hard to share and collaborate with a > > team. Of course, you can send via e-mail, but then the proliferation > > of versions and comments makes this kind of collaboration difficult. > > > > Then came centralized systems such as SharePoint that allow to store > > the documents in one place, lock the document so that only one person > > can edit it. However this again is far from perfect: I cannot easily > > track the history, who did what, what has really changed. And I still > > cannot properly comment on the document. But is better than e-mail. > > > > Then wikis came along. They made a whole bunch of stuff easy > > (versioning with diff, easy access to information, search, permissions > > etc). But they lack several important features a modern editor has: > > * They are not truly WYSIWYG. Any wiki is light-years behind Word > > from editing capabilities. This is a major impediment why wikis are > > not widely used in our organization. > > * They are not easy to work with in offline mode (when traveling on > > a plane) > > * They generally rapidly degrade in performance as more users use a > > wiki installation > > * It is not easy to just send a wiki "document" to somebody, > > especially to an external partner, when the wiki is on intranet. It > > has to be opened to external users, security policies need to be put > > in place etc. E-Mail is just light years easier in this respect. > > * Wikis, being web application, poorly support rich formatting that > > we've come to expect from a Word doc. I cannot easily take a wiki > > "document", print to PDF and send it to external partner - usually the > > document will not look professional. And to make it look professional > > in wiki will take way more time and resources than just to write it > > from scratch in Word. > > > > So here's my dilemma... Can anybody help me point out to a solution? > > Or if you experience the same issue - share your feelings as well, let > > me know that I'm not suffering alone. > > > > > > -- Wayne Mackintosh, Ph.D. Director, International Centre for Open Education, Otago Polytechnic, New Zealand. Board of Directors, OER Foundation. Founder and Community Council Member, Wikieducator, www.wikieducator.org Mobile +64 21 2436 380 Skype: WGMNZ1 Twitter: OERFoundation, Mackiwg --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
