on 8/11/09 8:47 PM, Emily Monroe at [email protected] wrote: >> It is also human nature that everyone, at one time or another, feels >> the need to speak frankly and forcefully. If that is met by hurt >> cries of "you are being incivil", that is a detriment to open >> discourse. > > Well, then there's the issue of differing cultures and > neuroatypicalities (such as people on the autistic spectrum), where > some people actually don't know how to be polite in some environments. > How do we deal with somebody from a different country? What about > somebody who we suspect has, or claims to have, a neurological > disability that affects how xy interact with others?* These are > questions we must ask ourselves. > > Emily > > PS *These questions are rhetorical. You can answer them, but I don't > expect anyone too.
These are excellent questions, Emily. And if (and I hope, when) a truly honest, serious, well-supported effort is put into dealing with the Project's culture, these types of questions, and the issues they raise, can be a significant part of the discussion. Marc > On Aug 11, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Carcharoth wrote: > >> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:18 AM, FT2<[email protected]> wrote: >>> I'm openly in support of a strong civility ethos - but it can't be >>> a gamed >>> one where some can and others can't. A community like this can't >>> have some >>> who can do stuff with impunity and others who'll get blocked for >>> the same >>> stuff. A good ethos matters; a policy is just words in comparison. >>> >>> The aim of a civility ethos/policy (if it can be said to have an >>> aim) is >>> roughly this: >>> >>> - When people speak rudely, others tend to get defensive, feel >>> attacked, >>> and often over-react. Others get dragged in to the incipient >>> drama to >>> "defend" rather than to "resolve". It encourages "heat" and not >>> "light" to >>> do so. >>> - Most users wish to contribute content. They see disputes as >>> undesirable >>> and an obstruction to that. When a dispute arises, it can poison >>> the >>> atmosphere or discourage or de-motivate others as a result. >>> - People are realistic, they know there will be disagreement, often >>> strongly. But seeing people behave like children and speaking in >>> a rude >>> offensive manner, may be demotivating. Especially, being spoken >>> to that way >>> can be. >>> - Politeness - as an affirmative choice - tends to hold the >>> emotional >>> temperature down. It helps disputes to be resolved calmer if >>> people are not >>> uptight and heated. It may not stop users misbehaving (eg civil >>> edit >>> warring) but a general policy of disallowing disrespectful speech >>> will >>> almost always have some positive effect. >>> >>> >>> The thing about a policy is, it needs wide and level enforcement. >>> How many >>> of the current concerns, I wonder, would be addressed, if admins were >>> actively expected to enact a high level of good conduct? If there >>> were norms >>> like "do not intervene in a dispute between others except to help >>> settle it >>> according to communal norms and support good quality resolution"? >>> >>> While some poor conduct is unavoidable, a lot would be improved if >>> more >>> users considered themselves responsible for avoiding "heating" >>> speech in >>> favor of "lighting" speech. Especially, a double standard for >>> admins (or >>> arbs, or established content writers) is not okay - users have the >>> right to >>> expect more, not less, from such trusted users. >> >> Maybe a tad too much jargon there? >> >> It is also human nature that everyone, at one time or another, feels >> the need to speak frankly and forcefully. If that is met by hurt cries >> of "you are being incivil", that is a detriment to open discourse. >> >> Carcharoth >> >> _______________________________________________ >> WikiEN-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l > > _______________________________________________ > WikiEN-l mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
