Thanks Michael, If the lists are migrated to Wikidata and there is one master there then I guess I will shift some of my editing to Wikidata. I agree that this makes logical sense for experienced wikimedians. I just hope that new photographers coming for a photography contest to help Wikipedia don't find the combination of Wikidata, Commons and Wikipedia a little over complex.
On a separate note I suppose that such a move of Wikipedia edits to Wikidata will further worry those who obsess about the perceived drop in the raw edit count on Wikipedia. Regards Jonathan / WereSpielChequers > On 30 Jul 2015, at 12:54, Magnus Manske <magnusman...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > Replying to several points: > > Yes, better tools, I'm all for that :-) > > Jane, the "has part" list you made just duplicates effort that is already > done. It's about as messy as Wikipedia lists. If we really want "has part", > fill it with bots, though I think that would be a bad idea as well. Tools can > order lists any way you like, by name, coordinate (closeness to a point or > whatnot), or any other property that is common to the items being sorted. > > WereSpielChequers, I do respect the work that was done with manual lists on > Wikipedia, but IMO they should be moved to Wikidata. By that, I mean their > contents should be carefully copied to Wikidata, then the lists should be > replaced by automatically generated ones, by bot and/or external display > tool. There should only be one master copy, on Wikidata. "Syncing" between > sites and technologies is hard enough to do once; on a continued basis, it is > Madness (see the uppercase M? That's how mad it is!) > > All: The tools I wrote so far that are used in WLM are either "working > demos", or generic tools (like autolist). If they are not to your liking, I > don't take it personally. But don't for a second think "this is the best we > can do". As Jane said, people (users) here tend to be silent, so I throw > something out there and see what sticks. Now that you have an idea of what > can be done (at the very least), I think it is time to brainstorm a tool most > people would be happy with (caveat feature-creep and design-by-committee and > all that). > > I hear the Python-based WLM tool is ported to Labs. I haven't worked with > that, but I think it's good to have continuity there. Even if we run > primarily on Wikidata, it could serve as a staging and management area; > syncing Wikidata to its database would be orders of magnitude better than > with Wikipedia manual lists. > >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 12:40 PM WereSpielChequers >> <werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote: >> As one of the Wikipedians who has been adding images and commons categories >> to the lists of English listed buildings currently on Wikipedia I rather >> hope that if the lists on Wikipedia are updated from Wikidata the update >> will go both ways, and Wikidata will import the additional work on Wikipedia. >> >> Regards >> >> Jonathan >> >> >>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 11:05, Michael Maggs <mich...@maggs.name> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Jane >>> >>> I've not been following closely what you're doing here, but I assume it is >>> the updating of the existing Wikidata items for UK listed buildings rather >>> than the creation of new ones? >>> >>> As part of WLM last year, we obtained updated copies of the definitive >>> lists from the English, Scottish, Welsh and NI listing bodies, as well as >>> the scheduled ancient monuments records. Magnus uploaded all of the >>> ancient monument and the grade I and II* listed buildings direct to >>> Wikidata - around 80,000 records if I remember rightly. >>> >>> We ran the WLM contest in the UK directly from these Wikidata records >>> without going via Wikipedia at all. The old UK monuments database dates >>> from before all that work. It is no longer useful and can be deleted. >>> >>> If there are inconsistencies between Wikidata and Wikipedia regarding these >>> lists, Wikipedia needs to be corrected/updated. >>> >>> Happy to discuss in more detail if you'd like to contact me off list. >>> >>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _________ ______________________________________ >>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >>> Michael >>> >>>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 10:59, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well I think your reasoning is what has kept us from doing this, and last >>>> year I would have agreed with you. However, let me begin by telling a >>>> story: one of the problems we have with filling the WLM lists in general >>>> is that we have very few wiki(p/m)edians who take pictures in remote rural >>>> areas near their home, but oddly, we have lots and lots of wiki(p/m)edians >>>> who take pictures in remote rural areas while on vacation (near or not to >>>> the homes of other wiki(p/m)edians apparently). >>>> >>>> Today we have no unified WLM interface for wiki(p/m)edians to join WLM in >>>> any other language-pedia than their own, and I feel this is an unnecessary >>>> barrier to entry of potential WLM contributions. >>>> >>>> The advantage of using the Wikidata list items for this purpose is that >>>> you have some control in presentation, whereas live queries have a >>>> haphazard list order based on date-of-creation-of-the-Wikidata-item >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Magnus Manske >>>>> <magnusman...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>> Ah, do we really want to duplicate information like this? The individual >>>>> items already have "heritage status: Grade I listed structure" or >>>>> somesuch. Manually curating a list on Q6646074 seems pointless when we >>>>> can auto-generate it. >>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:00 AM Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> So now, for the Birmingham list (first link in the mail below), I added >>>>>> the first few monuments to the Wikidata item for this list here: >>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6646074 >>>>>> >>>>>> I used "has part" but maybe there should be a property "list item" or >>>>>> somesuch thing? >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Date: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:03 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Moving monuments database to Wikidata >>>>>> To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition >>>>>> <wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> OK I am now looking at your Q number Q5642705 and I see that it is a >>>>>> hall, so I expect it to be an instance of hall, but it's not and it's an >>>>>> instance of architectural structure. This item has an enwiki Wikipedia >>>>>> article and when I click what links here I see the WLM list here: >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Birmingham >>>>>> Here I see only 4 columns - name, grade, date and architect >>>>>> >>>>>> An item that is also a hall in NL is a water board building called a >>>>>> gemeenlandshuis. Here is an example item >>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2847105 >>>>>> This is an instance of gemeenlandshuis which in turn is a subclass of >>>>>> hall. >>>>>> >>>>>> On the Dutch Wikipedia when I click what links here I see the link to >>>>>> the WLM list here: >>>>>> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_rijksmonumenten_in_Haarlemmerliede_en_Spaarnwoude >>>>>> This list has eight columns - name, original function, date, architect, >>>>>> location, coordinates, WLM ID, photo >>>>>> >>>>>> The column headings should be coming from the monuments database, and >>>>>> the original function should be the reason the object made it into the >>>>>> WLM list. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think both of these items should be part of a corresponding list on >>>>>> Wikidata. When I click what links here on Wikidata I see nothing that >>>>>> takes me to WLM. The only clue is the property P1435 for the British Q >>>>>> and property P359 for the Dutch Q. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe we should augment the corresponding list items with their members >>>>>> so that when you click what links here you are taken to the Q number of >>>>>> of the list item? This effectively migrates the lists to Wikidata >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Andy Mabbett >>>>>>> <a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>> On 26 July 2015 at 07:42, Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > So such wikipedia articles should be labelled " instance of" <the >>>>>>> > name of >>>>>>> > your identifier used in WLM>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe that method has been deprecated, and it is preferred to use >>>>>>> a property P1435 ("heritage status" in English): >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1435 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> as done, for example, on: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5642705 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Andy Mabbett >>>>>>> @pigsonthewing >>>>>>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
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