Hello Neville,

The info you've just provided is enough IMO (all we actually needed to know 
what the user himself just said to you). If you're convinced then it's fine. 
Now, to avoid any further confusion you should forward the user's mail to, 
permissions-commons{{@}}wikimedia.org


I can personally handle the otrs ticket if you send the the ticket id to me 
after sending it.

Best,

Nahid Sultan

User:NahidSultan<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> on all 
Wikimedia Foundation<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation>'s 
public wikis

Secretary, Wikimedia 
Bangladesh<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh>

Twitter: @nahidunlimited<https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited>

http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/


________________________________
From: WikiLovesMonuments <wikilovesmonuments-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org> on 
behalf of Neville Borg <neville.b...@wikimalta.org>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 7:21 PM
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons

Hi Isaac, all,

Just a quick follow up on the User:James John 
Borg<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg> 
issue. I have spoken to James John Borg and he informed me that he bought his 
camera off a person called Joshua Schembri and he doesn't know how to edit the 
metadata from the camera settings. This would explain why the metadata is 
crediting the photo to Joshua Schembri.

In this case, I have no doubt that he has taken the photos himself - he had 
reached out to us prior to submitting any photos asking various questions 
related to editing photos, what kind of photos are eligible etc., and he seems 
to be genuinely engaged with the WLM contest. I think we need to assume good 
faith in this situation. For what it's worth, he may be attending a workshop we 
are organising later this week, in which case he will be bringing his camera 
along and I will try to fix his camera's metadata settings myself.

Best regards,
Neville

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:48 olatunde olalekan isaac 
<reachout2is...@gmail.com<mailto:reachout2is...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Nevile,

Thank you. I'm glad you will step into the breach. I will take a look in 
another 2 days.

Best,

Isaac.

On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Neville Borg 
<neville.b...@wikimalta.org<mailto:neville.b...@wikimalta.org>> wrote:
Hi Isaac,

Thanks for pointing this out. I'm the WLM organiser for Malta, so I will try to 
clarify this with User:James John Borg. I don't know this user personally 
(despite our shared last name!), but I will try to find a way to contact them. 
For what it's worth, both James John Borg and Joshua Schembri are fairly common 
names in Malta, so I would assume that they are two different people, but that 
wouldn't automatically exclude the possibility of James John Borg having taken 
the photos.

Best,
Neville

On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:26 olatunde olalekan isaac 
<reachout2is...@gmail.com<mailto:reachout2is...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear all,

I stumbled across another participant, User:James John 
Borg<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg>. 
Looking at the metadata of their 
uploads<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/James_John_Borg>, 
it shows that the copyright holder of the files is " Joshua Schembri". I think 
the user is a participant from Malta. Do we have WLM organizer from Malta 
willing to take this up?

Best,

Isaac.



On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Alexander Tsirlin 
<altsir...@gmail.com<mailto:altsir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear Lodewijk,

I find it a bit difficult to assume good faith when someone approaches me with 
a knife. I find it more natural to defend, and that's what we have to do now.

I truly regret that Commons did not develop a more civil approach than 
submitting deletion requests on every possible occasion. Even if we assume that 
this is the reasonable course of action, it hardly makes sense for WLM, because 
only uploaders receive notifications about possible file deletion. The 
organizers have no idea about it, although they should be contacted in the 
first turn. Most of the uploaders are new users who do not speak English. What 
do you expect to hear from them?

All photos related to WLM Russia contain a template saying:
Please read the 
guidelines<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Monuments_database_in_Russia>
 before making any changes that can affect the monuments database!
If you actually read the guidelines, you will see the following:
If you see a potential candidate for deletion, inform us in the first place. We 
will organize the file transfer and you will be able to delete the photo 
afterwards. Should you do it differently and nominate a WLM/WLE photo for 
deletion without informing us, this will be highly detrimental and 
disrespectful to our work. We don't like vandals.
All these deletion requests are indeed highly disrespectful to our work. But 
they happen, and we have no other choice but to fight against that. And whet 
our knives, because we will likely need them.

Sincerely,
Alexander




On 17.09.2016 12:17, Lodewijk wrote:
Hey Alexander,

Assuming good faith is always good - even if you have to work harder for it. It 
makes the interactions more pleasant and the work more fun. So I will always 
recommend to keep doing it - even if it goes against your natural response.

The case where the names don't seem to match seems like a valid case to me to 
ask questions, and this process is (unfortunately) the process being used for 
that at Wikimedia Commons. It is uncomfortable, but it is what we have to deal 
with. Because there are so many pictures, there is a bunch to be expected.

I'm not going to pretend that the Wikimedia Commons community is always easy or 
fun to work with - but their intentions are usually good. They are very tough 
on copyright, and very suspicious. While these are some disadvantages, it does 
allow us to use a lot of shared infrastructure, and makes competitions like 
this one possible on an international scale. Please do realise that the number 
of uploads typically raises with 30-100% during Wiki Loves Monuments, and this 
puts some stress/strain on the reviewers too.

Best,
Lodewijk

2016-09-17 8:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Tsirlin 
<altsir...@gmail.com<mailto:altsir...@gmail.com>>:
Rather than complaining to the process could you please for once think that 
this is your project too and everyone in this together?
It is not my project. Like many other people, I am forced to use it as a common 
image repository, even though I emphatically do not want to. As you probably 
know, before migrating to WMF servers Wikivoyage had its own image repository, 
and we wanted to keep it, because it was much better organized than Commons, 
and we did not want other people to impose their rules and practices of 
"nominating everything for deletion" on images that we have carefully collected 
ourselves.

Unfortunately, our request was ignored by the WMF, so yes, we are also in this 
strange thing that was supposed to be a common project, but is in fact run by a 
handful of people who believe that unjustified and well-hidden deletion 
requests are the best way to solve all problems. But it stinks, and we try to 
be as far from it as possible.

Your experience of license review for WLM Bangladesh might be interesting if we 
would ever have time to do this. At the moment, I spend most of my free time on 
finding and fighting these well-hidden deletion requests. Thank you, my dear 
Commons community, for creating such a wonderful working environment.

Sincerely,
Alexander



On 17.09.2016 11:32, Nahid Sultan wrote:

Though it seems a bit odd but on a commons perspective it is also a normal 
procedure. Commons has a huge issue with people finding images online and then 
uploading them as their own work, so regular contributors on commons can 
sometimes be overzealous in making sure that people actually have the right to 
release what they are releasing. That is where the OTRS system comes in. Rather 
than complaining to the process could you please for once think that this is 
your project too and everyone in this together?


We, from WLM Bangladesh team have created a work-board/list for such users who 
have problem with metadata, previously published same image on other media to 
make sure that they are actually own the copyright. we even created a hand book 
for reviewers explaining what to look during the review 
(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM). So, every reviewer 
check for those mistakes when reviewing an image then if they found such 
problematic user they immediately contact them via email or talk page and list 
them on 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/possible_copyright_problem.
  It works for us.


Best,

Nahid Sultan

User:NahidSultan<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> on all 
Wikimedia Foundation<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation>'s 
public wikis

Secretary, Wikimedia 
Bangladesh<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh>

Twitter: @nahidunlimited<https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited>

http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/


________________________________
From: WikiLovesMonuments 
<wikilovesmonuments-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org><mailto:wikilovesmonuments-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org>
 on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin 
<altsir...@gmail.com><mailto:altsir...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 11:09 AM
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons

Now it is not only about Freedom of Panorama and non-free images.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb
Here, one Commons user nominates a bunch of excellent photos for
deletion after he sees that the user name does not match the name in
EXIF, even though the connection between the two is pretty obvious. This
deletion request has been closed yesterday, but it still costed me a lot
of time and a long e-mail exchange with the uploader, where I tried to
convince her that everything is fine, and this deletion request was only
a mistake. Yes, just a small mistake, really...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn
Here, the same user nominates for deletion some photos of a 13th century
cathedral claiming that there is no freedom of panorama. What???!

---------------------------------------

That's a very systematic course of action against us taking place on
Commons. It would be silly to assume good faith here.

Best,
Alexander



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