Hello Neville,
The info you've just provided is enough IMO (all we actually needed to know
what the user himself just said to you). If you're convinced then it's fine.
Now, to avoid any further confusion you should forward the user's mail to,
permissions-commons{{@}}wikimedia.org
I can personally handle the otrs ticket if you send the the ticket id to me
after sending it.
Best,
Nahid Sultan
User:NahidSultan<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> on all
Wikimedia Foundation<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation>'s
public wikis
Secretary, Wikimedia
Bangladesh<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh>
Twitter: @nahidunlimited<https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited>
http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/
________________________________
From: WikiLovesMonuments <[email protected]> on
behalf of Neville Borg <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 7:21 PM
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons
Hi Isaac, all,
Just a quick follow up on the User:James John
Borg<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg>
issue. I have spoken to James John Borg and he informed me that he bought his
camera off a person called Joshua Schembri and he doesn't know how to edit the
metadata from the camera settings. This would explain why the metadata is
crediting the photo to Joshua Schembri.
In this case, I have no doubt that he has taken the photos himself - he had
reached out to us prior to submitting any photos asking various questions
related to editing photos, what kind of photos are eligible etc., and he seems
to be genuinely engaged with the WLM contest. I think we need to assume good
faith in this situation. For what it's worth, he may be attending a workshop we
are organising later this week, in which case he will be bringing his camera
along and I will try to fix his camera's metadata settings myself.
Best regards,
Neville
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:48 olatunde olalekan isaac
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Nevile,
Thank you. I'm glad you will step into the breach. I will take a look in
another 2 days.
Best,
Isaac.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Neville Borg
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Isaac,
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm the WLM organiser for Malta, so I will try to
clarify this with User:James John Borg. I don't know this user personally
(despite our shared last name!), but I will try to find a way to contact them.
For what it's worth, both James John Borg and Joshua Schembri are fairly common
names in Malta, so I would assume that they are two different people, but that
wouldn't automatically exclude the possibility of James John Borg having taken
the photos.
Best,
Neville
On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:26 olatunde olalekan isaac
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear all,
I stumbled across another participant, User:James John
Borg<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg>.
Looking at the metadata of their
uploads<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/James_John_Borg>,
it shows that the copyright holder of the files is " Joshua Schembri". I think
the user is a participant from Malta. Do we have WLM organizer from Malta
willing to take this up?
Best,
Isaac.
On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Alexander Tsirlin
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear Lodewijk,
I find it a bit difficult to assume good faith when someone approaches me with
a knife. I find it more natural to defend, and that's what we have to do now.
I truly regret that Commons did not develop a more civil approach than
submitting deletion requests on every possible occasion. Even if we assume that
this is the reasonable course of action, it hardly makes sense for WLM, because
only uploaders receive notifications about possible file deletion. The
organizers have no idea about it, although they should be contacted in the
first turn. Most of the uploaders are new users who do not speak English. What
do you expect to hear from them?
All photos related to WLM Russia contain a template saying:
Please read the
guidelines<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Monuments_database_in_Russia>
before making any changes that can affect the monuments database!
If you actually read the guidelines, you will see the following:
If you see a potential candidate for deletion, inform us in the first place. We
will organize the file transfer and you will be able to delete the photo
afterwards. Should you do it differently and nominate a WLM/WLE photo for
deletion without informing us, this will be highly detrimental and
disrespectful to our work. We don't like vandals.
All these deletion requests are indeed highly disrespectful to our work. But
they happen, and we have no other choice but to fight against that. And whet
our knives, because we will likely need them.
Sincerely,
Alexander
On 17.09.2016 12:17, Lodewijk wrote:
Hey Alexander,
Assuming good faith is always good - even if you have to work harder for it. It
makes the interactions more pleasant and the work more fun. So I will always
recommend to keep doing it - even if it goes against your natural response.
The case where the names don't seem to match seems like a valid case to me to
ask questions, and this process is (unfortunately) the process being used for
that at Wikimedia Commons. It is uncomfortable, but it is what we have to deal
with. Because there are so many pictures, there is a bunch to be expected.
I'm not going to pretend that the Wikimedia Commons community is always easy or
fun to work with - but their intentions are usually good. They are very tough
on copyright, and very suspicious. While these are some disadvantages, it does
allow us to use a lot of shared infrastructure, and makes competitions like
this one possible on an international scale. Please do realise that the number
of uploads typically raises with 30-100% during Wiki Loves Monuments, and this
puts some stress/strain on the reviewers too.
Best,
Lodewijk
2016-09-17 8:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Tsirlin
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Rather than complaining to the process could you please for once think that
this is your project too and everyone in this together?
It is not my project. Like many other people, I am forced to use it as a common
image repository, even though I emphatically do not want to. As you probably
know, before migrating to WMF servers Wikivoyage had its own image repository,
and we wanted to keep it, because it was much better organized than Commons,
and we did not want other people to impose their rules and practices of
"nominating everything for deletion" on images that we have carefully collected
ourselves.
Unfortunately, our request was ignored by the WMF, so yes, we are also in this
strange thing that was supposed to be a common project, but is in fact run by a
handful of people who believe that unjustified and well-hidden deletion
requests are the best way to solve all problems. But it stinks, and we try to
be as far from it as possible.
Your experience of license review for WLM Bangladesh might be interesting if we
would ever have time to do this. At the moment, I spend most of my free time on
finding and fighting these well-hidden deletion requests. Thank you, my dear
Commons community, for creating such a wonderful working environment.
Sincerely,
Alexander
On 17.09.2016 11:32, Nahid Sultan wrote:
Though it seems a bit odd but on a commons perspective it is also a normal
procedure. Commons has a huge issue with people finding images online and then
uploading them as their own work, so regular contributors on commons can
sometimes be overzealous in making sure that people actually have the right to
release what they are releasing. That is where the OTRS system comes in. Rather
than complaining to the process could you please for once think that this is
your project too and everyone in this together?
We, from WLM Bangladesh team have created a work-board/list for such users who
have problem with metadata, previously published same image on other media to
make sure that they are actually own the copyright. we even created a hand book
for reviewers explaining what to look during the review
(https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM). So, every reviewer
check for those mistakes when reviewing an image then if they found such
problematic user they immediately contact them via email or talk page and list
them on
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/possible_copyright_problem.
It works for us.
Best,
Nahid Sultan
User:NahidSultan<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan> on all
Wikimedia Foundation<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation>'s
public wikis
Secretary, Wikimedia
Bangladesh<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh>
Twitter: @nahidunlimited<https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited>
http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/
________________________________
From: WikiLovesMonuments
<[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>
on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin
<[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2016 11:09 AM
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons
Now it is not only about Freedom of Panorama and non-free images.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb
Here, one Commons user nominates a bunch of excellent photos for
deletion after he sees that the user name does not match the name in
EXIF, even though the connection between the two is pretty obvious. This
deletion request has been closed yesterday, but it still costed me a lot
of time and a long e-mail exchange with the uploader, where I tried to
convince her that everything is fine, and this deletion request was only
a mistake. Yes, just a small mistake, really...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn
Here, the same user nominates for deletion some photos of a 13th century
cathedral claiming that there is no freedom of panorama. What???!
---------------------------------------
That's a very systematic course of action against us taking place on
Commons. It would be silly to assume good faith here.
Best,
Alexander
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