This perspective is not a productive one for building and maintaining a community. You need to have a better way of granting legitimacy to people's concerns while being able to discern histrionics.
Generally the optimal easy is to have there be a pathway by which the complainants have to fix the problem to the satisfaction of their strongest opposition. On Aug 6, 2013 1:04 PM, "Peter Southwood" <[email protected]> wrote: > To me it looks like a fairly small number of editors are making a fairly > large amount of noise, A very small number making a disproportionately > large amount, and a much larger number, probably the majority, have not > even bothered to comment at all. I also have not analysed the numbers, but > to me it looks like the numbers who have made one liner comments that they > approve is probably the same order of magnitude as the number who protest > incessantly. This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make a > lot of noise. After a while fewer people take them seriously. I start to > get the impression that there are now some people who have invested so much > effort into making a big deal of this that they now feel obliged to make an > even bigger deal so they can feel justified in doing so. Maybe I'm wrong, > maybe the numbers do indicate a wdespread and deep seated sense of > alienation. Maybe not. Time will probably tell, and hey, someone who is > prepared to approach the analysis scientifcally may get a dissertation out > of it. Stranger things have happened.. I also think the approach was > flawed, but I appreciate the reasons and I am prepared to assume good faith. > Cheers, > Peter > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" < > [email protected]> > To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" > <[email protected].**org<[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out > > > I've made no claim about "most" long-term editors, but any perusal of the >> two RFCs and the Feedback page would demonstrate that there's a fairly >> large group. >> >> Or are you arguing that deploying bug-ridden software that corrupts >> articles, hangs browsers, crashes unexpectedly, and doesn't have sufficient >> features to edit basic articles is somehow OK as long the site survives the >> disruption? Even if it can be shown that development knew that was the case >> prior to deployment, and chose to deploy it anyway? >> >> KWW >> >> Op 2013/08/06 10:54, Peter Southwood schreef: >> >>> Evidence that most long term editors are frothing at the mouth would be >>> a good start, evidence that the rollout of VE has had a significant impact >>> on long term editor retention, either way, even evidence that WP is in >>> rapid decline that is in any way related to VE, positively or negatively, >>> Cheers, >>> Peter >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" < >>> [email protected]> >>> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" >>> <[email protected].**org<[email protected]> >>> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:14 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out >>> >>> >>> Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef: >>>> >>>>> Do you have data to back up your claims? >>>>> Peter >>>>> >>>> What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years? >>>> Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency >>>> situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted English >>>> Wikipedia in order to create a test bed? The first two are judgement calls, >>>> for the third there's an embarrassment of riches. Let me know what you >>>> need. >>>> >>>> KWW >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" >>>>> <[email protected].**org<[email protected]> >>>>> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef: >>>>>> >>>>>>> This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. >>>>>>> Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they >>>>>>> make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in. >>>>>>> >>>>>> This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. Their argument >>>>>> for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing >>>>>> that >>>>>> it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we have >>>>>> concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that it >>>>>> has >>>>>> survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of the >>>>>> site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing >>>>>> strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and seeing >>>>>> what >>>>>> people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely and >>>>>> absolutely irresponsible. >>>>>> >>>>>> KWW >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/** >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, >>>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>>>> ?subject=**unsubscribe> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/** >>>>> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, >>>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>>> ?subject=**unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>>> ?subject=**unsubscribe> >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**_________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >>> Unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >>> ?subject=**unsubscribe> >>> >> >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list >> [email protected].**org <[email protected]> >> Unsubscribe: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> >> ?subject=**unsubscribe> >> > > > ______________________________**_________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > [email protected].**org <[email protected]> > Unsubscribe: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l>, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@**lists.wikimedia.org<[email protected]> > ?subject=**unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
