Histrionics is generally not a productive policy either.
It gets tedious after a while.
Cheers
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Cunctator" <[email protected]>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
This perspective is not a productive one for building and maintaining a
community. You need to have a better way of granting legitimacy to
people's
concerns while being able to discern histrionics.
Generally the optimal easy is to have there be a pathway by which the
complainants have to fix the problem to the satisfaction of their
strongest
opposition.
On Aug 6, 2013 1:04 PM, "Peter Southwood" <[email protected]>
wrote:
To me it looks like a fairly small number of editors are making a fairly
large amount of noise, A very small number making a disproportionately
large amount, and a much larger number, probably the majority, have not
even bothered to comment at all. I also have not analysed the numbers,
but
to me it looks like the numbers who have made one liner comments that
they
approve is probably the same order of magnitude as the number who protest
incessantly. This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make
a
lot of noise. After a while fewer people take them seriously. I start to
get the impression that there are now some people who have invested so
much
effort into making a big deal of this that they now feel obliged to make
an
even bigger deal so they can feel justified in doing so. Maybe I'm
wrong,
maybe the numbers do indicate a wdespread and deep seated sense of
alienation. Maybe not. Time will probably tell, and hey, someone who is
prepared to approach the analysis scientifcally may get a dissertation
out
of it. Stranger things have happened.. I also think the approach was
flawed, but I appreciate the reasons and I am prepared to assume good
faith.
Cheers,
Peter
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" <
[email protected]>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
<[email protected].**org<[email protected]>
>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
I've made no claim about "most" long-term editors, but any perusal of
the
two RFCs and the Feedback page would demonstrate that there's a fairly
large group.
Or are you arguing that deploying bug-ridden software that corrupts
articles, hangs browsers, crashes unexpectedly, and doesn't have
sufficient
features to edit basic articles is somehow OK as long the site survives
the
disruption? Even if it can be shown that development knew that was the
case
prior to deployment, and chose to deploy it anyway?
KWW
Op 2013/08/06 10:54, Peter Southwood schreef:
Evidence that most long term editors are frothing at the mouth would be
a good start, evidence that the rollout of VE has had a significant
impact
on long term editor retention, either way, even evidence that WP is in
rapid decline that is in any way related to VE, positively or
negatively,
Cheers,
Peter
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" <
[email protected]>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
<[email protected].**org<[email protected]>
>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef:
Do you have data to back up your claims?
Peter
What do you need? Evidence that Wikipedia has survived for years?
Evidence that its decline is not so rapid as to indicate an emergency
situation? Quotes from Erik where he states that he disrupted English
Wikipedia in order to create a test bed? The first two are judgement
calls,
for the third there's an embarrassment of riches. Let me know what you
need.
KWW
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Wayne Williams" <
[email protected]>
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
<[email protected].**org<[email protected]>
>
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef:
This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs.
opt-out.
Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and
they
make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in.
This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. Their argument
for 'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of
testing that
it affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we
have
concerns about Wikipedia's sustainability, there's no question that
it has
survived for years and will survive for years more. The stability of
the
site is much more important than testing this code, and the testing
strategy of presenting it as if it was functioning software and
seeing what
people did with it wasn't a reasonable decision: it was completely
and
absolutely irresponsible.
KWW
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