Indeed, a community a few hundred seems optimal. Fred
> This is certainly not a question only for the English Wikipedia. I > somewhat doubt that it even foremost has to do with the English > Wikipedia. I have seen this problem primarily in smaller Wikis dominated > by few people. > > Regards, > Lars Gardenius > > > > ________________________________ > Von: Fred Bauder <fredb...@fairpoint.net> > An: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> > CC: wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org > Gesendet: 13:28 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 > Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from itself > > > At wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org ? Perhaps, but hard to start over from > the beginning. > > Fred > >> Should not this discussion be held on he maillist for English >> wikipedia? >> >> There is not much, if any, of what is being discussed that I can >> recognize from my home wp >> >> Anders >> >> >> >> Fred Bauder skrev 2013-09-05 13:18: >>> That was the purpose of the original arbitration committee. Finding a >>> mentor is kind of hard nowdays as there are so many users who might >>> help >>> but probably will not. On the other hand, many requests I have >>> received >>> and looked into are from people who are making trouble themselves; >>> sometimes very serious trouble. Giving a second chance to someone who >>> has >>> been banned by the community after extended discussion seldom works >>> out >>> well. But that's not a newbie who has run into serious trouble just >>> for >>> making jokes about Windoze... >>> >>> Fred >>> >>>> It is very laudable if you, Peter, tries and help newbies and others >>>> that >>>> are harassed by other users. >>>> >>>> I however don't think it is enough in a worldwide organization that >>>> you >>>> have to rely on volunteers and that these will intervene. >>>> >>>> As I see it, if you start such an organization you must also take on >>>> the >>>> responsibilities that follows. >>>> You can't just duck and pretend that you can hand over all problems >>>> to >>>> the users. >>>> >>>> I still think that an international organization like the Wikis >>>> demands >>>> an instance to which mistreated and mobbed users can turn. An >>>> instance >>>> with the responsibility that normal rules in a society are upheld and >>>> with the authority to uphold them. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Lars Gardenius >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________ >>>> Von: Peter Gervai <grin...@gmail.com> >>>> An: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> >>>> Gesendet: 10:50 Donnerstag, 5.September 2013 >>>> Betreff: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Please, let's save the Wikipedia - from >>>> itself >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Lars Gardenius >>>> <lars.garden...@yahoo.de> >>>> wrote: >>>>> No I don't think it is being addressed. Not in a serious way. >>>> You mean it's not _solved_. Indeed. >>>> >>>> At least one problem was mentioned in the thread which is that the >>>> (honest, knowledgeable) newbies have unproportionally smaller >>>> debating/lobbying power than aboriginals, and they are very easy to >>>> oppress. This is an ongoing problem for the last decade or so and no >>>> good solution seem to exist. >>>> >>>> In theory there are (or could be) volunteers who could be called in >>>> cases of newbie oppression from the experienced troll^H^H^H^Heditors >>>> who would declare that they try to act as neutral as possible but >>>> they >>>> would possess more experience to handle obnoxious editors and other >>>> regual beings. Arbitration, mentoring, whatever we like to call it. >>>> Obviously it only worked if there's a free way to reject a request >>>> (if >>>> the volunteer believes the newbie has no merits, let's not call them >>>> outright trolls and vandals) and if it isn't an "official" cabal but >>>> a >>>> large catalog of helpful and experienced editors. >>>> >>>> I have often done it (and still occasionally do on Commons since it's >>>> a pretty harsh environment for newbies) and it's doable if there's >>>> enough volunteers and people don't try to do it too often, I mean, >>>> one >>>> in a week or month or so. >>>> >>>> The point is to have a group of random people who are not involved in >>>> the debate but could help to communicate with the members of the >>>> community. (Since they're uninvolved it's probably useless to call >>>> them biased, which is the easiest unargument I've seen in such >>>> debates.) >>>> >>>> g >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list >>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>