The winners of Dutch literature awards are IMHO fine for wikidata. I mean, what 
is the problem, that they are LP? Would be any difference form the relevance 
point of view, if they were asteroids or hamlets or small lakes or skerries on 
a nautical map? Some of them will get a page one day on some wikis, some of 
them will be cited on a list, some ignored... it happens all the times for a 
lot of items. 
We are uploading item for scientific articles, what is the problem with their 
authors? there are also national or institutional database for specific objects 
like work of arts or maps or specific documents, something that will show how 
loose are the borders between structured data of commons and a wikidata 
platform with lots of various items. I am sure we are importing some of them, 
what's the issue with their minor authors if they are still alive? 
Wikidata has also its own development issue to address, I agree, it can't store 
everything, but the solution to this question should not come with simple 
comparison to platforms with different roles and goals. Wikipedias have their 
battle with BLP and spam and so on, but in no way this should disrupt the 
wikidata workflow. Wikidata items have also their standards, the most 
reasonable future threshold here is for me the quality of the source but not 
the presence of the item per se if it has an external, good-quality ID.
If part of the issue here is that someone has some problem that the BLP they 
managed to erase on a local platforms is still on wikidata, honestly I think 
they should get over it focusing on more productive tasks. In any case, every 
wikiplatform can decide to use wikidata for the management of their red link 
and their infoboxes, only if they want to. I don't see the problem.


    Il Mercoledì 27 Settembre 2017 7:50, Gerard Meijssen 
<> ha scritto:

When a database is linked to, there are many reasons for linking. One is it is 
"authoritative" so the data is of a high quality or it is the standard bearer 
in a particular field. Another reason is because there is a clear operational 
purpose. Linking to the Open Library for instance has such a purpose; it allows 
us to link to free content; it provides the basics for a mechanism so that 
Wikipedia readers can read books of an author or read a particular book. 

One reason often neglected is that the other database is actively maintained 
and its maintainers collaborate with people at Wikidata to mutual advantage. 
This is the case with the people at Open Library, with the people at OCLC. It 
is most powerful because past activities have had a measurable effect in their 
projects and in Wikidata. From my personal perspective active collaboration is 
to be preferred over the authority of another source.

The reason why both red, blue and black links ought to be linked to Wikidata is 
because it enables comparison and evaluation. When red links are linked to a 
Wikidata item they will not turn blue whan an autonym is created. Blue links 
have an implicit link to a Wikidata item. It happens all too often, 
particularly in lists, that a blue link is associated with the wrong article. 
It is reasonable to expect that multiple instances of the same list contains 
links to the same items. With an explicit link it becomes easy for bots to 
compare lists in the different Wikipedias and find these differences. It is 
also possible to compare with Wikidata but that is of a secondary relevance..

With red links and blue links linked to Wikidata, the similarity of the data on 
an item with the data in an article indicates a probability that the quality in 
Wikidata is high. Given the huge number of statements on items that have no 
reference it is the best that can be done given the enormous amount of data in 

Given the policies of Wikidata, there will be references to living people that 
only exist to complete a list. I am adding many Dutch authors at this time to 
complete the award winners of Dutch literature awards. They consist of a label 
in Dutch, the fact of their humanity often a gender indication and the fact 
that they won the award. This pattern is true for many awards and, it is an 
accepted consequence of the Wikidata notability policy. These are in effect red 
links in a Wikipedia.

On 27 September 2017 at 05:08, Alessandro Marchetti <> wrote:

Personally, I think that if person has an ID on some databases, than it can 
stay on wikidata. Once in a while some database can be removed if issues are 
pointed out about their accuracy, but if a database is sound and professional, 
we should use it to fix an item. it could be the same for a databases of sites, 
buildings or museum items too. Creating a wikipedia-style averaged policy on 
the issue is much more vague. Especially when local pages do not exist, the IDs 
is the key parameter to start, IMHO.
It is ok if a wikipedia has only a fraction of relevant "photographers" or 
"painters" or "athletes"... but a database should be complete and objective, it 
cannot rely on the funnel of what some wikipedia accepts and other don't, it 
would make it more biased and unbalanced importing a local bias. What's the 
point for example if I find an archive of Dutch photographers with IDs to 
import only those that have a page on nlwiki (or maybe enwiki, dewiki, frwiki)? 
You import all the codes, some items will have wikipedia pages, some will not, 
what's the real issue on this aspect? Being standardized and coherent is more 
important for an archive.
About the quality of the items, this comes as a second step. Some of them will 
always be less cured, we can say that for a BLP a minimum requirement of 
properties is necessary for example. I can accept that an item with just one ID 
is removed if no additional information can be found. That is, a BLP item with 
a limited number of properties and no platform and just one ID can be proposed 
for deletion, although this should not be an automatism. But if you care about 
an item, you can improve it if it risks to be deleted. This is a functional 
issue, if an item does not tell me if you're a man or a woman, your age, your 
profession... well it is basically few things more than a ugly duplicate of a 
string in the url of the original database, so what's its utility? Some more 
complete output in some basic query here and there, maybe, but it should be 
possible to ask more. The point is that this should be considered in the 
framework of a database and its use, a more "functional" than "philosophical" 
P.S. Not sure I have understood the blue and red link request, in some minor 
wiki red link can be linked to wikidata, but why the blue one?

    Il Martedì 26 Settembre 2017 19:07, Gerard Meijssen 
<> ha scritto:

There is a lot to do about the current absence of a BLP policy at Wikidata.
Many people, particularly those involved in Wikipedia, insist on one and a
policy that is a mirror image of their policy.

I am opposed to such an approach because it will be detrimental to the best
practices in Wikidata and it will stifle the inclusion of data.
Nevertheless there is a need for better quality particularly where it
concerns BLP.

Only being against is a bad position so I have laid out the arguments for a
more inclusive BLP and quality approach [1]. It does bring many of the
relevant questions together.

What this approach accomplishes is:
* better quality in both Wikipedia and Wikidata
* an opt in change in the Wikipedia environment that links blue and red
links to Wikidata items
* it allows for the Wikidata best practices
* it invites any Wikimedia collaborator to make a positive difference for
our overall BLP.

What it does not provide is an instant BLP solution for Wikidata, this is
not realistic given the huge number of items involved, people often
specific to one or no Wikipedia. It will not convince everyone and that too
is to be expected. After all the proof of the pudding is in the eating and
not so much in the endless bickering.

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